From: Nishanth Aravamudan Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 00:44:38 +0000 Subject: Re: [KJ] New to Kernel Work - Need Direction Message-Id: <20060816004438.GF27227@us.ibm.com> List-Id: References: <200608151531.40914.lordsauronthegreat@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <200608151531.40914.lordsauronthegreat@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: kernel-janitors@vger.kernel.org Also, never trim the Cc, without saying you have done so at the top, it's bad etiquette :) On 15.08.2006 [17:43:01 -0700], Nishanth Aravamudan wrote: > On 15.08.2006 [17:10:37 -0700], Lord Sauron wrote: > > On Tuesday 15 August 2006 16:22, you wrote: > > > On 15.08.2006 [15:31:17 -0700], Lord Sauron wrote: > > > > First I need something to do. I looked at the current to-do list and > > > > decided that convincing the XFS folks to use negative error codes > > > > couldn't be terribly difficult. I'm thinking of making the > > > > modifications to the code myself (assuming I'm correct in thinking > > > > that the XFS code is in fs/xfs in the source directory). > > > > > > The XFS folks can be hard to work with :) Sometimes. It may be worth > > > trying to update their code again, but check the archives to see if > > > anyone has tried before and been summarily rejected (there may be a > > > legitimate reason I don't know of). > > > > Sounds like a good idea. Couldn't hurt though (learning experiences > > are what I'm looking for, not the fame and fortune of a good hack). > > Then you're at the right place. Maintainers can often be harsh when a > patch comes through that isn't wanted :) > > > > The XFS code is in fs/xfs, you are correct. > > > > > > > My second question is about development environments. I like > > > > KDevelop, and wish to use it to work on the kernel. Does anyone have > > > > any tips or suggestions for a good graphical way to work with the > > > > Kernel? > > > > > > Don't? :) I mostly use $text_editor (vim, emacs, etc.) and that's it. > > > cscope and lxr are good code reference tools, as is grep (or cgvg, if > > > you prefer a bit more organized grep experienced). > > > > The best I've ever come into contact with is nano. I'm not terribly > > command-line literate, though I switched my laptop to Gentoo in order > > to force myself down that path. > > You'll want to become more so, if you're seriously interested in being a > kernel developer/hacker. nano is fine, although some of the more > advanced features in vim and emacs can help make you more efficient. > Switching distros isn't necessary to being more CLI literate, btw, and > Gentoo might be considered by some (myself included) a bit of an extreme > step :) You just need to familiarize yourself with the necessary tools. > > > > I'm not sure you *need* a graphical way to work with the kernel, > > > even if that's what you're used to. > > > > You don't really ever need a graphical way (though my friend, a Apple > > developer, will rant for days about why you really do *need* XCode). > > I just find it easier, that's all. > > Right, that's what I figured. I don't know of anyone off the top of my > head, who uses any graphical tools for developing on the kernel (IDE > like, or whatever). > > Oh, and by the way, depending on what mail client you use, make sure you > set it up right for submitting patches (preserve tabs, no HTML, no > attachments, etc) :) > > > > > I'd rather not try and bludgeon my way through it with KATE and > > > > writing makefiles and caveman debugging and the likes of that, > > > > however, the kernel is a gigantic code base, and I'm not sure how > > > > to approach organizing it in a manner which is good for the total > > > > and complete newbie (me). > > > > > > Uhh, if you end up needing to write a Makefile for janitorial work, > > > you're probably doing something wrong :) Not sure what "caveman > > > debugging" exactly is, but most janitor stuff is cleanup, not > > > bugfixing, although sometimes they are closely related. If you want > > > to fix bugs, get an account at bugzilla.kernel.org and help out :) > > > In that case, though, expertise is useful, more often than not. > > > > Caveman debugging... if you've ever written something like this: > > > > | cout << "x = " << x << endl; > > > > you might have been a caveman debugger at some time of your life. > > It's the art of trying to figure out what went on inside the black box > > by looking at what came out the other end. It's *very* time consuming > > and requires frequent rebuilds. > > Ah, well, yes, that you'll end up doing down the road whether you want > to or not. It's called "printk debugging" in the kernel world. Hopefully > not "frequent" rebuilds, but in this case will require reboots (unless > you use UML or an emulation layer). You won't really be doing much > debugging when it comes to janitorial work; mostly build- and > boot-testing and passing patches on to the appropriate Maintainers. If > it's a serious bug, then it's probably not janitor-material. > > > > I'm not sure what you need to be organizing in the code base. It's > > > already *highly* organized... > > > > Yes, it is. > > > > > > Thanks for your time, and please tell me if this isn't the > > > > appropriate place to start with getting to know and work on the > > > > kernel. > > > > > > While it may not be explicitly be the former, it certainly covers > > > the latter. I also recommend sitting on #kernelnewbies and/or > > > #kerneljanitor on OFTC. > > > > I don't like IRC that much. Call me archaic or weird or whatever, but > > I still think email is the hottest thing. > > There is also a kernelnewbies mailing list. You may want to read the > archives first and start Googlin' around, as you'll find more and more > responses to FAQs as "Check the archive". There is also a wiki at > www.kernelnewbies.org. > > I would seriously reconsider your stance on IRC, btw, it's a very useful > means of communication / forum to ask questions in. To each either own. > > > > Thanks, > > > Nish > > > > > > > - -- Lord Sauron > > > > > > P.S. A *big* part of kernel development is trust. Trust starts with > > > using your real name :) > > > > And punch through this gigantic aura I've built around myself? Sure. > > I use the Lord Sauron alias to sidestep cyberbullies. They usually > > leave when I pull the "I'll spam you to death" line on them. > > I find that treating kernel development like one big company -- a very > very informal one -- is useful when thinking abou this. You wouldn't use > a pseudonym when sending e-mail to a co-worker, I don't think. Thanks, Nish -- Nishanth Aravamudan IBM Linux Technology Center _______________________________________________ Kernel-janitors mailing list Kernel-janitors@lists.osdl.org https://lists.osdl.org/mailman/listinfo/kernel-janitors