tzdata fixes
cover tzdata fixes
tzdata is missing a file to make the local timezone detection actually work in many programs, and isn't architecture specific.
The following changes since commit 603f6c631e9454d10517599e229943f2b26d08a5:
atom-pc: Drop glibc --with-tls option, its now the only option for glibc (2012-08-21 12:15:33 +0100)
are available in the git repository at:
git://git.yoctoproject.org/poky-contrib ross/tz
for you to fetch changes up to ba35808d6976ff17d3732ffcdb56e71f8014137c:
tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone (2012-08-29 15:21:48 +0100)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Burton (2):
tzdata: this package isn't architecture specific
tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb | 5 ++++- 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
Ross Burton (2):
tzdata: this package isn't architecture specific
tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb | 5 ++++- 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
Signature · 1 line
1.7.10
PATCH 1/2 tzdata: this package isn't architecture specific
The data files are compiled to a binary but architecture-independent format, so this package can be allarch.
--- meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb | 4 +++- 1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb +3 -1
@@ -5,7 +5,9 @@ LICENSE = "PD" LIC_FILES_CHKSUM = "file://asia;beginline=2;endline=3;md5=06468c0e84ef4d4c97045a4a29b08234" DEPENDS = "tzcode-native" -PR = "r0" +PR = "r1" + +inherit allarch RCONFLICTS_${PN} = "timezones timezone-africa timezone-america timezone-antarctica \ timezone-arctic timezone-asia timezone-atlantic \
Signature · 1 line
1.7.10
PATCH 2/2 tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Lots of code (such a GLib) expects this to exist and link to the current timezone data.
--- meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb | 3 ++- 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb +2 -1
@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ LICENSE = "PD" LIC_FILES_CHKSUM = "file://asia;beginline=2;endline=3;md5=06468c0e84ef4d4c97045a4a29b08234" DEPENDS = "tzcode-native" -PR = "r1" +PR = "r2" inherit allarch
@@ -49,6 +49,7 @@ do_install () { # Install default timezone install -d ${D}${sysconfdir} echo ${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE} > ${D}${sysconfdir}/timezone + ln -s ${datadir}/zoneinfo/${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE} ${D}${sysconfdir}/localtime chown -R root:root ${D} }
Signature · 1 line
1.7.10
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Op 29 aug. 2012, om 16:24 heeft Ross Burton <[email protected]> het volgende geschreven:
Quoted 22 lines
Lots of code (such a GLib) expects this to exist and link to the current timezone data.
Signed-off-by Ross Burton <[email protected]>---
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb | 3 ++-1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb +0
-0@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ LICENSE = "PD"
LIC_FILES_CHKSUM= "file://asia;beginline=2;endline=3;md5=06468c0e84ef4d4c97045a4a29b08234" DEPENDS = "tzcode-native"meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb +1
-1-PR = "r1" +PR = "r2"inherit allarch
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb do_install () { · line 52
Quoted 4 lines
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb +1
-0@@ -49,6 +49,7 @@ do_install () { # Install default timezone install -d ${D}${sysconfdir} echo ${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE} > ${D}${sysconfdir}/timezone + ln -s ${datadir}/zoneinfo/${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE} ${D}${sysconfdir}/localtime
Awesome! I've been campaigning for the symlink solution for a while now. Good thing that split-/usr nonsense is over now.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 1 line · On Wednesday 29 August 2012 16:47:10 Koen Kooi wrote:
Op 29 aug. 2012, om 16:24 heeft Ross Burton <[email protected]> het
volgende geschreven:
Quoted 29 lines
Quoted 29 lines
Lots of code (such a GLib) expects this to exist and link to the current timezone data.
Signed-off-by Ross Burton <[email protected]>---
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb | 3 ++-1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)(quoted diff) +0
-0b/meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb index 31e1266..9741101 100644
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb +0
-0@@ -5,7 +5,7 @@ LICENSE = "PD"
LIC_FILES_CHKSUM= "file://asia;beginline=2;endline=3;md5=06468c0e84ef4d4c97045a4a29b08234" DEPENDS = "tzcode-native"meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb +1
-1-PR = "r1" +PR = "r2"inherit allarch
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb +0
-0@@ -49,6 +49,7 @@ do_install () { # Install default timezone install -d ${D}${sysconfdir} echo ${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE} > ${D}${sysconfdir}/timezone
Quoted 5 lines
Quoted 2 lines
meta/recipes-extended/tzdata/tzdata_2012d.bb +1
-0+ ln -s ${datadir}/zoneinfo/${DEFAULT_TIMEZONE}${D}${sysconfdir}/localtime
Awesome! I've been campaigning for the symlink solution for a while now. Good thing that split-/usr nonsense is over now.
How do you get that from this patch?
Cheers,
Paul
Signature · 2 lines
Paul Eggleton Intel Open Source Technology Centre
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
In reply to Koen KooiQuoted 1 line · Koen Kooi
Awesome! I've been campaigning for the symlink solution for a while now. Good thing that split-/usr nonsense is over now.
Pointing out that the ln should be a cp for crazy split /usr systems would have been sufficient, Koen.
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Op 29 aug. 2012, om 17:23 heeft "Burton, Ross" <[email protected]> het volgende geschreven:
Quoted 5 lines · Koen Kooi
Quoted 1 line
Awesome! I've been campaigning for the symlink solution for a while now. Good thing that split-/usr nonsense is over now.
Pointing out that the ln should be a cp for crazy split /usr systems would have been sufficient, Koen.
Ehm, I *really* want it to be a symlink, that way you easily check what the timezone is without needing to boot the device or compare md5sums. The last thing the TSC said on the split /usr was something along the lines of "would be nice, but only if it doesn't make things worse". A cp instead of ln would make things worse IMO.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 1 line · Koen Kooi
Ehm, I *really* want it to be a symlink, that way you easily check what the timezone is without needing to boot the device or compare md5sums. The last thing the TSC said on the split /usr was something along the lines of "would be nice, but only if it doesn't make things worse". A cp instead of ln would make things worse IMO.
I'm all in favour of dropping the / and /usr split. If we get a definitive direction we can stop these arguments. :)
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 9 lines · Ross
Quoted 5 lines · Koen Kooi
Ehm, I *really* want it to be a symlink, that way you easily check what the timezone is without needing to boot the device or compare md5sums. The last thing the TSC said on the split /usr was something along the lines of "would be nice, but only if it doesn't make things worse". A cp instead of ln would make things worse IMO.
I'm all in favour of dropping the / and /usr split. If we get a definitive direction we can stop these arguments. :)
Well, the TSC as a group is still keen on supporting it last time it was discussed (a few meetings ago) as Koen mentions.
Surely this specific situation is pretty easy to solve for everyone using a postinst which is able to apply some logic - i.e. if the file is on a separate filesystem then cp the file, otherwise symlink it.
Cheers,
Paul
Signature · 2 lines
Paul Eggleton Intel Open Source Technology Centre
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 6 lines · Paul Eggleton
Well, the TSC as a group is still keen on supporting it last time it was discussed (a few meetings ago) as Koen mentions.
Surely this specific situation is pretty easy to solve for everyone using a postinst which is able to apply some logic - i.e. if the file is on a separate filesystem then cp the file, otherwise symlink it.
Sounds like a lot of extra work when the choice is fairly clear. Either we don't support split file systems and mandate initramfs for network boots, or we do our best to support it. With a decision on that the choice of cp vs ln is obvious.
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 4 lines · Ross
Sounds like a lot of extra work when the choice is fairly clear. Either we don't support split file systems and mandate initramfs for network boots, or we do our best to support it. With a decision on that the choice of cp vs ln is obvious.
Even if the TSC decides that OE-core ought still to offer the option of split /usr, that doesn't necessarily mean that all distros will want to take the option up. Ideally folks who don't want/need a separate /usr would be able to get a symlink rather than a copy.
p.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 10 lines · Phil Blundell
Quoted 4 lines · Ross
Sounds like a lot of extra work when the choice is fairly clear. Either we don't support split file systems and mandate initramfs for network boots, or we do our best to support it. With a decision on that the choice of cp vs ln is obvious.
Even if the TSC decides that OE-core ought still to offer the option of split /usr, that doesn't necessarily mean that all distros will want to take the option up. Ideally folks who don't want/need a separate /usr would be able to get a symlink rather than a copy.
Sounds like they'll need to write a tool to run after every package operation and hunt out symlinks in /etc (and other top-levels) to files in /usr and turn those into copies. Anything attempted on a per-package level will fail.
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 5 lines · Ross
Sounds like they'll need to write a tool to run after every package operation and hunt out symlinks in /etc (and other top-levels) to files in /usr and turn those into copies. Anything attempted on a per-package level will fail.
why cant you have symlinks across /usr and / all you have to do is ignore the warning
about cross reference. We dont want to be in a situation where everything is ending up
in /lib and /bin and so on. I am afraid thats where we are headed as more and more patches are coming where we are moving libraries from /usr/lib into /lib against the wishes of package owners who want them to be in /usr. rest of linux
world is moving in opposite direction where /usr is just fine and considered existing along with rest of basefile structure.
see
http://lwn.net/Articles/483921/
http://lwn.net/Articles/431185/
More and more packages are now assuming /usr
and we would have to keep fixing them to support our view of world if we go strict
about enforcing / and /usr separation there is unionfs and initramfs and so many other techniques to solve this problem now a days we dont have to differentiate between / and /usr
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 3 lines · Khem Raj
rest of linux
world is moving in opposite direction where /usr is just fine and considered existing along with rest of basefile structure.
Agreed. I'm with the side that says split / and /usr doesn't really work and they should always be the same filesystem.
I'm curious if the people who want / and /usr on separate partitions that Phil refers to are a hypothetical group of people, or people who can chime in with their opinion.
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 3 lines · Ross
I'm curious if the people who want / and /usr on separate partitions that Phil refers to are a hypothetical group of people, or people who can chime in with their opinion.
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed "carrier grade" systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement. There's been some previous discussion on the list, see for example:
http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2012-February/017360.html
and the follow-ups to that message.
p.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 9 lines · Phil Blundell
Quoted 3 lines · Ross
I'm curious if the people who want / and /usr on separate partitions that Phil refers to are a hypothetical group of people, or people who can chime in with their opinion.
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed "carrier grade" systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement.
whatever the reasons are. Its not clear what are reasons these systems can not use techniques available now a days for creating new systems. I can understand if OE had a legacy of it but seemingly its a feature being added. I see that as an exception and not norm and we are treating as norm.
There's been some previous discussion on the list, see for
Quoted 9 lines
example:
http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2012-February/017360.html
and the follow-ups to that message.
p.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
In reply to Phil BlundellQuoted 10 lines · Phil Blundell
Quoted 3 lines · Ross
I'm curious if the people who want / and /usr on separate partitions that Phil refers to are a hypothetical group of people, or people who can chime in with their opinion.
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed "carrier grade" systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement. There's been some previous discussion on the list, see for example:
The interesting mail in that thread is
http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2012-February/017373.html,
where Mark Hatle from Wind River not Intel (yeah, okay...) cites carrier grade blade systems. Then again I've had a few years away from OE, and I've no idea what the "micro" system referred to in later mails is.
Considering the modern oe-core boot rapidly reaches udev and thus can silently break in subtle way with /usr unmounted, I'm not entirely happy with claiming to support separate partitions unless you define support as just "gets to a shell".
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 3 lines · Ross
Then again I've had a few years away
from OE, and I've no idea what the "micro" system referred to in later mails is.
micro is a DISTRO which, among other things, folds /usr and / into a single tree (i.e. $bindir == $base_bindir, etc.). If you're using that configuration then clearly /usr and / must, by definition, be on the same filesystem and this is an example of a situation where we wouldn't want to make copies.
p.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
In reply to Phil BlundellQuoted 4 lines · Phil Blundell
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed "carrier grade" systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement.
None of the carrier-grade people (or indeed any others) seem to have spoken up in favour of a separate /usr in the past 3 days or so, which does rather suggest that nobody actually cares about it.
Maybe the TSC would like to reconsider whether this is in fact a worthwhile thing to go on trying to support in oe-core or whether it should just assume that / and ${prefix} will be the same filesystem.
p.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 6 lines · Phil Blundell
Quoted 4 lines · Phil Blundell
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed "carrier grade" systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement.
Quoted 8 lines
None of the carrier-grade people (or indeed any others) seem to have spoken up in favour of a separate /usr in the past 3 days or so, which does rather suggest that nobody actually cares about it.
Maybe the TSC would like to reconsider whether this is in fact a worthwhile thing to go on trying to support in oe-core or whether it should just assume that / and ${prefix} will be the same filesystem.
yes it will be brought forth
Quoted 8 lines
p.
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
In reply to Phil BlundellQuoted 6 lines · Phil Blundell
Quoted 4 lines · Phil Blundell
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed "carrier grade" systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement.
Quoted 7 lines
None of the carrier-grade people (or indeed any others) seem to have spoken up in favour of a separate /usr in the past 3 days or so, which does rather suggest that nobody actually cares about it.
Maybe the TSC would like to reconsider whether this is in fact a worthwhile thing to go on trying to support in oe-core or whether it should just assume that / and ${prefix} will be the same filesystem.
I think the people in question are at a conference at the moment and dealing with a few issues so they fact they haven't spoken up doesn't surprise me.
I'm fine with merging the symlink change. As others have mentioned, if it is an issue, a script to turn the links into copies can be written relatively easily.
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long as it doesn't excessively hurt us. It is up to users to step up and help maintain the use cases they care about and so far, they have done this. So I think the position the TSC took is the correct one. Certainly we can revisit it but its not going to stop this patch going in for example.
Cheers,
Richard
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 3 lines · Richard Purdie
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long as it doesn't excessively hurt us
we already have, done special things to support it look how many libraries appear in /lib now a days despite their original build system wanting it in /usr and I still get atleast 50 warnings on it wanting more in /lib and I am sure someone will send patches for it because they hate the warning and then we will have this growing pile of patches
to maintain. So IMO it has already started to hurt us.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 6 lines · Khem Raj
Quoted 3 lines · Richard Purdie
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long as it doesn't excessively hurt us
Quoted 7 lines
we already have, done special things to support it look how many libraries appear in /lib now a days despite their original build system wanting it in /usr and I still get atleast 50 warnings on it wanting more in /lib and I am sure someone will send patches for it because they hate the warning and then we will have this growing pile of patches
to maintain. So IMO it has already started to hurt us.
just to quantify it. I have 11 warnings reported about it.
WARNING: QA Issue: .... installed in the base_prefix, requires a shared library under exec_prefix (/usr)
this is very custom image but very much similar to core-image-minimal now if I fix this 11 warnings. For the sake of it I fixed these 11 warnings by hacking patches for packages or recipes to move these files into base_prefix and it now gives me 16 more warnings about same but different files it wants to bring along into base_prefix
its quite slimy :/
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 21 lines · Khem Raj
Quoted 6 lines
Quoted 3 lines · Richard Purdie
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long as it doesn't excessively hurt us
Quoted 7 lines
we already have, done special things to support it look how many libraries appear in /lib now a days despite their original build system wanting it in /usr and I still get atleast 50 warnings on it wanting more in /lib and I am sure someone will send patches for it because they hate the warning and then we will have this growing pile of patches
to maintain. So IMO it has already started to hurt us.just to quantify it. I have 11 warnings reported about it.
WARNING: QA Issue: .... installed in the
base_prefix, requires a shared library underexec_prefix(/usr)
Quoted 7 lines
this is very custom image but very much similar to core-image-minimal now if I fix this 11 warnings. For the sake of it I fixed these 11 warnings by hacking patches for packages or recipes to move these files into
base_prefixand it now gives me 16 more warnings about same but different files it wants to bring along intobase_prefixits quite slimy :/
As Khem says, leading distros are even going one step further:
http:\\fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/UsrMove
Seems it's time to consider alternative rootfs layouts, like this F17 unified filesystem.
Andrea
Quoted 4 lines
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 27 lines · Andrea Adami
Quoted 27 lines · Khem Raj
Quoted 6 lines
Quoted 3 lines · Richard Purdie
I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long as it doesn't excessively hurt us
Quoted 7 lines
we already have, done special things to support it look how many libraries appear in /lib now a days despite their original build system wanting it in /usr and I still get atleast 50 warnings on it wanting more in /lib and I am sure someone will send patches for it because they hate the warning and then we will have this growing pile of patches
to maintain. So IMO it has already started to hurt us.just to quantify it. I have 11 warnings reported about it.
WARNING: QA Issue: .... installed in the
base_prefix, requires a shared library underexec_prefix(/usr)this is very custom image but very much similar to core-image-minimal now if I fix this 11 warnings. For the sake of it I fixed these 11 warnings by hacking patches for packages or recipes to move these files into
base_prefixand it now gives me 16 more warnings about same but different files it wants to bring along intobase_prefix
Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 1 line
its quite slimy :/
As Khem says, leading distros are even going one step further:
http:\\fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/UsrMove
Seems it's time to consider alternative rootfs layouts, like this F17 unified filesystem.
I really dislike their snarky FAQ..
I'm sorry, not all devices being generated have initramfs configuration (nor do people want that behavior.) Also we've shown you can build a system w/ a split filesystem and it works properly. The systemd/udev developers seem 'lazy' to me... they were unwilling to work through early and late boot so they just gave up.
The comments in the FAQ about /etc and /var being local to a given machine, while /usr being shareable is a reasonable set. This is the situations where I've seen this used the most especially in blade systems w/ a local rootfs on each, with a shared /usr among them all.
I agree it can make some update processes more difficult, but the reality is there are already mechanisms in place -- for many products -- that address this.
Perhaps one way around the whole argument is simply to redefine the problem. (As Fedora and others seem to have done.) Work on an OE solution to construct a minimal boot/configuration system that can load the appropriate (combined) /usr partition, and then pivot-root, or similar and re-exec init to switch to that configuration? This is similar in concept to the initramfs, but is not tied to a specific technique or technology.
This would still allow for the quick boot configuration (RO mount even), udev setup, module loading and such -- and the larger /usr partition and upgrade path.
This is not something we have in OE today, and would certainly require some custom work.....
--Mark
Quoted 12 lines
Andrea
Quoted 4 lines
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 5 lines · Mark Hatle
I'm sorry, not all devices being generated have initramfs configuration (nor
do people want that behavior.) Also we've shown you can build a system w/
a split filesystem and it works properly. The systemd/udev developers seem 'lazy' to me... they were unwilling to work through early and late boot so they just gave up.
With oe-core master, I get:
NOTE: Executing RunQueue Tasks
WARNING: QA Issue: udev: /lib/libgudev-1.0.so.0.0.1, installed in the base_prefix, requires a shared library under exec_prefix (/usr):
libgobject-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0 (0xdead2000)
So that's a false positive, and libgudev can be moved back into /usr where it belongs?
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 9 lines · Ross
Quoted 5 lines · Mark Hatle
I'm sorry, not all devices being generated have initramfs configuration (nor
do people want that behavior.) Also we've shown you can build a system w/
a split filesystem and it works properly. The systemd/udev developers seem 'lazy' to me... they were unwilling to work through early and late boot so they just gave up.With oe-core master, I get:
Quoted 7 lines
NOTE: Executing RunQueue Tasks
WARNING: QA Issue: udev:/lib/libgudev-1.0.so.0.0.1, installed in thebase_prefix, requires a shared library underexec_prefix(/usr):
libgobject-2.0.so.0 =>/usr/lib/libgobject-2.0.so.0(0xdead2000)So that's a false positive, and libgudev can be moved back into /usr where it belongs?
The gobject linkage into udev is either the result of a newer version of udev, different configuration options or "something else". The version we're using from the Denzil branch did not generate this failure. (maybe the check was in error?)
This type of problem is the "peeling of the onion" problem. You fix one, and you expose the next problem. Each of these are really problems.. the catch is at the end of the process do you eliminate the problem (in a sustainable way) or not. For this particular issue, I haven't looked at udev in a while to see where the dependency is coming from, and why it is there..
--Mark
Quoted 2 lines
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 7 lines · Mark Hatle
Quoted 2 lines
So that's a false positive, and libgudev can be moved back into /usr where it belongs?
The gobject linkage into udev is either the result of a newer version of udev, different configuration options or "something else". The version we're using from the Denzil branch did not generate this failure. (maybe the check was in error?)
gudev is relatively new, so probably isn't in the Denzil udev. It would be interesting to see if it's used in early boot or not (I suspect not, as it depends on GObject), and only selectively move parts of udev to /lib as required instead of forcing everything to move.
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 9 lines · Ross
Quoted 7 lines · Mark Hatle
Quoted 2 lines
So that's a false positive, and libgudev can be moved back into /usr where it belongs?
The gobject linkage into udev is either the result of a newer version of udev, different configuration options or "something else". The version we're using from the Denzil branch did not generate this failure. (maybe the check was in error?)
Quoted 5 lines
gudev is relatively new, so probably isn't in the Denzil udev. It would be interesting to see if it's used in early boot or not (I suspect not, as it depends on GObject), and only selectively move parts of udev to /lib as required instead of forcing everything to move.
Ya, understanding how it's used and when.. it should be much easier to make a good choice. I know in the past I've been able to break apart things like this.
--Mark
Quoted 2 lines
Ross
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
In reply to Mark HatleQuoted 4 lines · Mark Hatle
I'm sorry, not all devices being generated have initramfs configuration (nor
do people want that behavior.) Also we've shown you can build a system w/
a split filesystem and it works properly.
yes if every package followed this sadly thats a more and more diverging case now a days.
so do we diverge and it there a compelling case to do so. I would do it if 80% of our usecase was this one
but this seems like a one off thing so either we find a better solution or we abandon it. In my opinion
such a thing should be a configure option disabled by default and whoever has the usecase for it
can enable it but not default
there is a use case where now people are asking can I use this fedora prebuilt rpm with yocto/OE
and so on and if we diverge too much on root file system layout by default we can get sidelined.
The systemd/udev developers seem
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'lazy' to me... they were unwilling to work through early and late boot so they just gave up.
Linux was never supposed to have / and /usr different to begin with
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The comments in the FAQ about /etc and /var being local to a given machine, while /usr being shareable is a reasonable set. This is the situations where I've seen this used the most especially in blade systems w/ a local rootfs on each, with a shared /usr among them all.
I agree it can make some update processes more difficult, but the reality is there are already mechanisms in place -- for many products -- that address this.
Perhaps one way around the whole argument is simply to redefine the problem. (As Fedora and others seem to have done.) Work on an OE solution to construct a minimal boot/configuration system that can load the appropriate (combined) /usr partition, and then pivot-root, or similar and re-exec init to switch to that configuration? This is similar in concept to the initramfs, but is not tied to a specific technique or technology.
This would still allow for the quick boot configuration (RO mount even), udev setup, module loading and such -- and the larger /usr partition and upgrade path.
This is not something we have in OE today, and would certainly require some custom work.....
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 1 line · On Tuesday 04 September 2012 14:29:08 Khem Raj wrote:
Linux was never supposed to have / and /usr different to begin with
So I agree this is hard to do properly now and is going to be impossible to keep up with as time goes on, but where do you get this from?
Cheers,
Paul
Signature · 2 lines
Paul Eggleton Intel Open Source Technology Centre
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Quoted 3 lines · Paul Eggleton
So I agree this is hard to do properly now and is going to be impossible to keep up with as time goes on, but where do you get this from?
read the links I posted in this thread earlier.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
In reply to Richard PurdieQuoted 11 lines · Richard Purdie
Quoted 10 lines · Phil Blundell
Quoted 4 lines · Phil Blundell
As far as I know, only Intel have ever expressed any real interest in having this feature work. My recollection is that there are some supposed "carrier grade" systems where this is, for whatever reason, a requirement.
None of the carrier-grade people (or indeed any others) seem to have spoken up in favour of a separate /usr in the past 3 days or so, which does rather suggest that nobody actually cares about it.
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Maybe the TSC would like to reconsider whether this is in fact a worthwhile thing to go on trying to support in oe-core or whether it should just assume that / and ${prefix} will be the same filesystem.
I think the people in question are at a conference at the moment and dealing with a few issues so they fact they haven't spoken up doesn't surprise me.
As Richard mentioned, a lot of folks were at a conference last week and with the holiday (in the US) over the weekend were not around to reply before.
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I'm fine with merging the symlink change. As others have mentioned, if it is an issue, a script to turn the links into copies can be written relatively easily.
Frankly, I'm an advocate of the split, and I'm in favor of the symlink change. A dangling link is fine for a non-criticial component like a timezone file. If the system attempts to get the time, it will simply fall back to GMT, which to me is acceptable on embedded systems.
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I don't think dropping support for / and ${prefix} makes sense as long as it doesn't excessively hurt us. It is up to users to step up and help maintain the use cases they care about and so far, they have done this. So I think the position the TSC took is the correct one. Certainly we can revisit it but its not going to stop this patch going in for example.
Again, I agree with this.
At Wind River we've been following up and sending patches. The issue is that we (OE) need to keep reviewing them and determining if they continue to make sense or not. If we get into a situation where we've moved everything from /usr to /, it's pretty clear it no longer makes sense! However, we're still far from the point.
initramdisk (from the comments to the links Khem sent out) is certainly a primary issue, but not the one I've been focused on in the past...
A number of devices that I've worked with do something -similar- to the ramdisk for early booting. Boot order becomes:
firmware/bootloader -> kernel -> [small] rootfs mount (RO) -> run init
init -> module loading -> setup -> 'late' udev config -> mount filesystems (/usr) -> 'early' udev config
(late udev is running the daemon and watching for hotplug events, early udev is what triggers device creation behaviors. The orders are switched both for performance, and because other then plugable devices -- the device tree is more or less static from one boot to the next, so our root has it pre-seeded...)
Many of the devices also have a validation and restoration system on root as well, that is performed by the setup step. If the validation fails, then corrective actions can be taken to "fix" the system. The / is always a RO system.. the device may contain more then one '/' to allow for upgrades, but the active one is always RO to avoid various potential problems.
The more software that gets put onto the system, the harder it will be to do field upgrades w/o a reboot. (Since we don't want to allow / to change.)
Keeping the root small makes for a quicker boot, smaller set of partitions, and easier restoration on failure in my experience.
---
Again, if creating split systems no longer makes sense, I'm not against dumping the code.. I am going to be monitoring our customers, as much as I'm able, over the next 6 months -> year and seeing if anyone is doing this type of split anymore.. if they're not.. then we (OE) may, justifiably, abandon this behavior.
--Mark
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Cheers,
Richard
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Re: [PATCH 2/2] tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
In reply to Koen KooiQuoted 1 line · Koen Kooi
Ehm, I *really* want it to be a symlink, that way you easily check what the timezone is without needing to boot the device or compare md5sums. The last thing the TSC said on the split /usr was something along the lines of "would be nice, but only if it doesn't make things worse". A cp instead of ln would make things worse IMO.
Branch updated with a symlink, and the following commit message:
tzdata: install /etc/localtime alongside /etc/timezone
Lots of code (such a GLib) expects this to exist and link to the current timezone definition.
/etc/localtime is a symlink instead of a copy of hard link to make
it obvious
what timezone data it's pointing at. For systems with /etc on a separate filesystem to /usr this will result in a dangling symlink until
/usr is mounted,
but as this is early boot the assumption is that anything checking it will handle that case and fallback to UTC.
Ross
Op 29 aug. 2012, om 16:24 heeft Ross Burton <[email protected]> het volgende geschreven:
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tzdata is missing a file to make the local timezone detection actually work in many programs, and isn't architecture specific.
The following changes since commit
603f6c631e9454d10517599e229943f2b26d08a5:atom-pc: Drop glibc --with-tls option, its now the only option for glibc (2012-08-21 12:15:33 +0100)
are available in the git repository at:
git://git.yoctoproject.org/poky-contribross/tz
Since you're posting to the oe-core list, why aren't you posting a branch that is actually mergeable into oe-core?!?!?!?