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net: threadable napi poll loop

RFC PATCH In review Paolo Abeni 8 participants 48 messages May 10, 2016 – May 16, 2016

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Paolo Abeni

author maintainer
#0 lore raw

cover net: threadable napi poll loop

Currently, the softirq loop can be scheduled both inside the ksofirqd kernel thread and inside any running process. This makes nearly impossible for the process scheduler to balance in a fair way the amount of time that a given core spends performing the softirq loop.

Under high network load, the softirq loop can take nearly 100% of a given CPU, leaving very little time for use space processing. On single core hosts, this means that the user space can nearly starve; for example super_netperf UDP_STREAM tests towards a remote single core vCPU guest[1] can measure an aggregated throughput of a few thousands pps, and the same behavior can be reproduced even on bare-metal, eventually simulating a single core with taskset and/or sysfs configuration.

This patch series allows the administrator to let the napi poll loop run inside its own kernel thread, a thread for each napi instance, while retaining the default, softirq-based behavior. The RPS mechanism is currently not affected.

When the napi poll loop is run inside a proper kernel thread, the process scheduler can fairly balance the rx job between the user space application and the kernel and give the administrator the ability to manage the network workload with scheduler tools and configuration.

With the default scheduling policy, the starvation issue observed on single vCPU guest under UDP flood is solved and the throughput measured under heavy overload is quite stable around the peak performance.

In the remote host to VM scenario, running even the hypervisor napi poll loop in threaded mode gives additional benefit, since the process scheduler can more easily avoid cpu conflict between the VM process and the kernel thread processing the rx packets.

The raw numbers, obtained with the super_neterf UDP_STREAM test, in a remote host to VM scenario, using a tun device with a noqueue qdisc in the hypervisor and using 'sdfn' for the rx flow hash on the ingress device, are as follow:

vanilla guest threaded both hypevisor and
guest threaded
size/flow kpps kpps/delta kpps/delta
1/1 746 901/+20% 1024/+37%
1/25 185 585/+215% 789/+325%
1/50 330 642/+94% 843/+155%
1/100 180 662/+267% 872/+383%
1/200 177 672/+279% 812/+358%
64/1 707 1042/+47% 1062/+50%
64/25 320 586/+83% 746/+132%
64/50 195 648/+232% 761/+290%
64/100 221 666/+200% 787/+255%
64/200 186 688/+268% 793/+325%
256/1 475 777/+63% 809/+70%
256/25 303 589/+83% 860/+183%
256/50 308 584/+89% 825/+168%
256/100 268 698/+159% 785/+191%
256/200 186 656/+398% 795/+503%
1438/1 619 664/+7% 640/+3%
1438/25 519 766/+47% 829/+59%
1438/50 451 712/+57% 820/+81%
1438/100 294 759/+158% 797/+170%
1438/200 262 728/+177% 769/+193%
4096/1 176 207/+17% 200/+13%
4096/25 225 275/+22% 286/+27%
4096/50 212 272/+28% 283/+33%
4096/100 168 264/+57% 283/+68%
4096/200 134 240/+78% 273/+102%
64000/1 16 18/+13% 18/+13%
64000/25 18 18/0 18/0
64000/50 18 18/0 18/0
64000/100 18 18/0 18/0
64000/200 15 15/0 15/0

This patchset is a first RFC but in the long run we would like to move more and more NAPI instances into kthreads. The kthread approach should give a lot of new advantages over the softirq based approach:

* moving into a more dpdk-alike busy poll packet processing direction:
we can even use busy polling without the need of a connected UDP or TCP socket and can leverage busy polling for forwarding setups. This could very well increase latency and packet throughput without hurting other processes if the networking stack gets more and more preemptive in the future.

* possibility to acquire mutexes in the networking processing path: e.g. we would need that to configure hw_breakpoints if we want to add watchpoints in the memory based on some rules in the kernel

* more and better tooling to adjust the weight of the networking kthreads, preferring certain networking cards or setting cpus affinity on packet processing threads. Maybe also using deadline scheduling or other scheduler features might be worthwhile.

* scheduler statistics can be used to observe network packet processing

At this point we are not really sure if we should go with this simpler approach by putting NAPI itself into kthreads or leverage the threadirqs function by putting the whole interrupt into a thread and signaling NAPI that it does not reschedule itself in a softirq but to simply run at this particular context of the interrupt handler.

While the threaded irq way seems to better integrate into the kernel and also other devices could move their interrupts into the threads easily on a common policy, we don't know how to really express the necessary knobs with the current device driver model (module parameters, sysfs attributes, etc.). This is where we would like to hear some opinions. NAPI would e.g. have to query the kernel if the particular IRQ/MSI if it should be scheduled in a softirq or in a thread, so we don't have to rewrite all device drivers. This might even be needed on a per rx-queue granularity.

[1] when the flows are processed by the hypervisor on different rx queues, i.e. the flows use different source/destination IPs or the hypervisor uses the L4 header to compute the rx hash.

Paolo Abeni (2):
net: implement threaded-able napi poll loop support
net: add sysfs attribute to control napi threaded mode

 include/linux/netdevice.h |   4 ++
 net/core/dev.c            | 113 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 net/core/net-sysfs.c      | 102 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 3 files changed, 219 insertions(+)
Signature · 1 line
1.8.3.1
author maintainer
#1 lore raw

RFC PATCH 1/2 net: implement threaded-able napi poll loop support

This patch allows running each napi poll loop inside its own kernel thread.
The rx mode can be enabled per napi instance via the newly addded napi_set_threaded() api; the requested kthread will be created on demand and shut down on device stop.

Once that threaded mode is enabled and the kthread is started, napi_schedule() will wake-up such thread instead of scheduling the softirq.

The threaded poll loop behaves quite likely the net_rx_action, but it does not have to manipulate local irqs and uses an explicit scheduling point based on netdev_budget.

---
 include/linux/netdevice.h |   4 ++
 net/core/dev.c            | 113 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 2 files changed, 117 insertions(+)
include/linux/netdevice.h +4 -0
index 63580e6..0722ed5 100644
@@ -323,6 +323,7 @@ struct napi_struct {
 	struct list_head	dev_list;
 	struct hlist_node	napi_hash_node;
 	unsigned int		napi_id;
+	struct task_struct	*thread;
 };
 
 enum {
@@ -331,6 +332,7 @@ enum {
 	NAPI_STATE_NPSVC,	/* Netpoll - don't dequeue from poll_list */
 	NAPI_STATE_HASHED,	/* In NAPI hash (busy polling possible) */
 	NAPI_STATE_NO_BUSY_POLL,/* Do not add in napi_hash, no busy polling */
+	NAPI_STATE_THREADED,	/* The poll is performed inside its own thread*/
 };
 
 enum gro_result {
@@ -475,6 +477,8 @@ static inline void napi_complete(struct napi_struct *n)
  */
 void napi_hash_add(struct napi_struct *napi);
 
+int napi_set_threaded(struct napi_struct *n, bool threded);
+
 /**
  *	napi_hash_del - remove a NAPI from global table
  *	@napi: NAPI context
net/core/dev.c +113 -0

164 lines not on this page · raw message

Signature · 1 line
1.8.3.1
author maintainer
#2 lore raw

RFC PATCH 2/2 net: add sysfs attribute to control napi threaded mode

In reply to Paolo Abeni

this patch addis a new sysfs attribute to the network device class. Said attribute is a bitmask that allows controlling the threaded mode for all the napi instances of the given network device.

The threaded mode can be switched only if related network device is down.

---
 net/core/net-sysfs.c | 102 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 1 file changed, 102 insertions(+)
net/core/net-sysfs.c +102 -0
index 2b3f76f..60bc768 100644
@@ -489,6 +489,107 @@ static ssize_t phys_switch_id_show(struct device *dev,
 }
 static DEVICE_ATTR_RO(phys_switch_id);
 
+unsigned long *__alloc_thread_bitmap(struct net_device *netdev, int *bits)
+{
+	struct napi_struct *n;
+
+	*bits = 0;
+	list_for_each_entry(n, &netdev->napi_list, dev_list)
+		(*bits)++;
+
+	return kmalloc_array(BITS_TO_LONGS(*bits), sizeof(unsigned long),
+			     GFP_ATOMIC | __GFP_ZERO);
+}
+
+static ssize_t threaded_show(struct device *dev,
+			     struct device_attribute *attr, char *buf)
+{
+	struct net_device *netdev = to_net_dev(dev);
+	struct napi_struct *n;
+	unsigned long *bmap;
+	size_t count = 0;
+	int i, bits;
+
+	if (!rtnl_trylock())
+		return restart_syscall();
+
+	if (!dev_isalive(netdev))
+		goto unlock;
+
+	bmap = __alloc_thread_bitmap(netdev, &bits);
+	if (!bmap) {
+		count = -ENOMEM;
+		goto unlock;
+	}
+
+	i = 0;
+	list_for_each_entry(n, &netdev->napi_list, dev_list) {
+		if (test_bit(NAPI_STATE_THREADED, &n->state))
+			set_bit(i, bmap);
+		i++;
+	}
+
+	count = bitmap_print_to_pagebuf(true, buf, bmap, bits);
+	kfree(bmap);
+
+unlock:
+	rtnl_unlock();
+
+	return count;
+}
+
+static ssize_t threaded_store(struct device *dev,
+			      struct device_attribute *attr,
+			      const char *buf, size_t len)
+{
+	struct net_device *netdev = to_net_dev(dev);
+	struct napi_struct *n;
+	unsigned long *bmap;
+	int i, bits;
+	size_t ret;
+
+	if (!capable(CAP_NET_ADMIN))
+		return -EPERM;
+
+	if (!rtnl_trylock())
+		return restart_syscall();
+
+	if (!dev_isalive(netdev)) {
+		ret = len;
+		goto unlock;
+	}
+
+	if (netdev->flags & IFF_UP) {
+		ret = -EBUSY;
+		goto unlock;
+	}
+
+	bmap = __alloc_thread_bitmap(netdev, &bits);
+	if (!bmap) {
+		ret = -ENOMEM;
+		goto unlock;
+	}
+
+	ret = bitmap_parselist(buf, bmap, bits);
+	if (ret)
+		goto free_unlock;
+
+	i = 0;
+	list_for_each_entry(n, &netdev->napi_list, dev_list) {
+		napi_set_threaded(n, test_bit(i, bmap));
+		i++;
+	}
+	ret = len;
+
+free_unlock:
+	kfree(bmap);
+
+unlock:
+	rtnl_unlock();
+	return ret;
+}
+static DEVICE_ATTR_RW(threaded);
+
 static struct attribute *net_class_attrs[] = {
 	&dev_attr_netdev_group.attr,
 	&dev_attr_type.attr,
@@ -517,6 +618,7 @@ static struct attribute *net_class_attrs[] = {
 	&dev_attr_phys_port_name.attr,
 	&dev_attr_phys_switch_id.attr,
 	&dev_attr_proto_down.attr,
+	&dev_attr_threaded.attr,
 	NULL,
 };
 ATTRIBUTE_GROUPS(net_class);
Signature · 1 line
1.8.3.1
#3 lore raw
In reply to Paolo Abeni
Quoted 5 lines · Paolo Abeni

Currently, the softirq loop can be scheduled both inside the ksofirqd kernel thread and inside any running process. This makes nearly impossible for the process scheduler to balance in a fair way the amount of time that a given core spends performing the softirq loop.

Quoted 7 lines

Under high network load, the softirq loop can take nearly 100% of a given CPU, leaving very little time for use space processing. On single core hosts, this means that the user space can nearly starve; for example super_netperf UDP_STREAM tests towards a remote single core vCPU guest[1] can measure an aggregated throughput of a few thousands pps, and the same behavior can be reproduced even on bare-metal, eventually simulating a single core with taskset and/or sysfs configuration.

I hate these patches and ideas guys, sorry. That is before my breakfast, but still...

I have enough hard time dealing with loads where ksoftirqd has to compete with user threads that thought that playing with priorities was a nice idea.

Guess what, when they lose networking they complain.

We already have ksoftirqd to normally cope with the case you are describing.

If it is not working as intended, please identify the bugs and fix them, instead of adding yet another tests in fast path and extra complexity in the stack.

In the one vcpu case, allowing the user thread to consume more UDP packets from the target UDP socket will also make your NIC drop more packets, that are not necessarily packets for the same socket.

So you are shifting the attack to a different target, at the expense of more kernel bloat.

maintainer
#4 lore raw

From: Eric Dumazet <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 07:29:50 -0700

Quoted 6 lines

We already have ksoftirqd to normally cope with the case you are describing.

If it is not working as intended, please identify the bugs and fix them, instead of adding yet another tests in fast path and extra complexity in the stack.

+1

Indeed, if ksoftirqd is not doing it's job, please fix it. It is designed exactly to deal with the problems described here.

author maintainer
#5 lore raw
In reply to Eric Dumazet

Hi,

Quoted 14 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 5 lines · Paolo Abeni

Currently, the softirq loop can be scheduled both inside the ksofirqd kernel thread and inside any running process. This makes nearly impossible for the process scheduler to balance in a fair way the amount of time that a given core spends performing the softirq loop.

Quoted 7 lines

Under high network load, the softirq loop can take nearly 100% of a given CPU, leaving very little time for use space processing. On single core hosts, this means that the user space can nearly starve; for example super_netperf UDP_STREAM tests towards a remote single core vCPU guest[1] can measure an aggregated throughput of a few thousands pps, and the same behavior can be reproduced even on bare-metal, eventually simulating a single core with taskset and/or sysfs configuration.

Quoted 2 lines

I hate these patches and ideas guys, sorry. That is before my breakfast, but still...

I'm sorry, I did not meant to spoil your breakfast ;-)

Quoted 3 lines

I have enough hard time dealing with loads where ksoftirqd has to compete with user threads that thought that playing with priorities was a nice idea.

I fear there is a misunderstanding. I'm not suggesting to fiddle with priorities; the above 'taskset' reference was just an hint to replicate the starvation issue on bare-metal in the lack of a single core host.

Quoted 9 lines

Guess what, when they lose networking they complain.

We already have ksoftirqd to normally cope with the case you are describing.

If it is not working as intended, please identify the bugs and fix them, instead of adding yet another tests in fast path and extra complexity in the stack.

The idea it exactly that: the problem is how the softirq loop is scheduled and executed, i.e. the current ksoftirqd/"inline loop" model.

If a single core host is under network flood, i.e. ksoftirqd is scheduled and it eventually (after processing ~640 packets) will let the user space process run. The latter will execute a syscall to receive a packet, which will have to disable/enable bh at least once and that will cause the processing of another ~640 packets. To receive a single packet in user space, the kernel has to process more than one thousand packets.

AFAICS it can't be solved without changing how the net_rx_action is served.

The user space starvation issue don't affect large server, but AFAIK many small devices have a lot of out-of-tree hacks to cope with this sort of issues.

In the VM scenario, the starvation issue was not a real concern up to a little time ago because the vhost/tun device was not able to push packets fast enough into the guest to trigger the issue. Recent improvements have changed the situation.

Also, the scheduler's ability to migrate the napi threads is quite beneficial for hypervisor when the VMs are receiving a lot of network traffic.
Please have a look at the performance numbers.

The current patch adds a single, simple, test per napi_schedule invocation, and with minimal changes, the kernel won't access any additional cache-line when the napi thread is disabled. Even in the current form, in my tests no regression is seen with the patched kernel when the napi thread mode is disabled.

Quoted 3 lines

In the one vcpu case, allowing the user thread to consume more UDP packets from the target UDP socket will also make your NIC drop more packets, that are not necessarily packets for the same socket.

That is true. But the threaded napi will not starve, i.e. the forwarding process, to a nearly zero packet rate, while with the current code the reverse scenario can happen.

Cheers,

Paolo

Quoted 6 lines

So you are shifting the attack to a different target, at the expense of more kernel bloat.

#6 lore raw
Quoted 6 lines · Paolo Abeni

If a single core host is under network flood, i.e. ksoftirqd is scheduled and it eventually (after processing ~640 packets) will let the user space process run. The latter will execute a syscall to receive a packet, which will have to disable/enable bh at least once and that will cause the processing of another ~640 packets. To receive a single packet in user space, the kernel has to process more than one thousand packets.

Looks you found the bug then. Have you tried to fix it ?

author maintainer
#7 lore raw
Quoted 10 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 6 lines · Paolo Abeni

If a single core host is under network flood, i.e. ksoftirqd is scheduled and it eventually (after processing ~640 packets) will let the user space process run. The latter will execute a syscall to receive a packet, which will have to disable/enable bh at least once and that will cause the processing of another ~640 packets. To receive a single packet in user space, the kernel has to process more than one thousand packets.

Looks you found the bug then. Have you tried to fix it ?

The core functionality is implemented in ~100 lines of code, is that the kind of bloat that do concerns you ?

That could probably be improved removing some code duplication, i.e. factorizing napi_thread_wait() with irq_wait_for_interrupt() and possibly napi_threaded_poll() with net_rx_action().

If the additional test inside napi_schedule() is really scaring, it can be guarded with a static_key.

The ksoftirq and the local_bh_enable() design are the root of the problem, they need to be touched/affected to solve it.

We actually experimented several different options.

Limiting the amount of work performed by local_bh_enable() somewhat mitigate the issue, but it adds just another kernel parameter difficult to be tuned.

Running the softirq loop exclusively inside the ksoftirqd will solve the issue, but this is a very invasive approach, affecting all others subsystem.

The above can be restricted to the net_rx_action only (i.e. running net_rx_action always in ksoftirqd context). The related patch isn't really much simpler than this and will add at least the same number of additional tests in fast path.

Running the napi loop in a thread that can be migrated gives additional benefit in the hyper-visor/VM scenario, which can't be achieved elsewhere.

Would you consider the threaded irq alternative more viable ?

Cheers,

Paolo

maintainer
#8 lore raw

From: Paolo Abeni <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 22:22:50 +0200

Quoted 11 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 10 lines · Paolo Abeni
Quoted 7 lines

If a single core host is under network flood, i.e. ksoftirqd is scheduled and it eventually (after processing ~640 packets) will let the user space process run. The latter will execute a syscall to receive a packet, which will have to disable/enable bh at least once and that will cause the processing of another ~640 packets. To receive a single packet in user space, the kernel has to process more than one thousand packets.

Looks you found the bug then. Have you tried to fix it ?

...

Quoted 2 lines

The ksoftirq and the local_bh_enable() design are the root of the problem, they need to be touched/affected to solve it.

That's not what I read from your description, processing 640 packets before going to ksoftirqd seems to the be the absolute root problem.

#9 lore raw
Quoted 17 lines · David Miller

From: Paolo Abeni <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 22:22:50 +0200

Quoted 5 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 4 lines · Paolo Abeni

Quoted 2 lines

If a single core host is under network flood, i.e. ksoftirqd is scheduled and it eventually (after processing ~640 packets) will

let the

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

user space process run. The latter will execute a syscall to

receive a

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

packet, which will have to disable/enable bh at least once and

that will

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

cause the processing of another ~640 packets. To receive a

single packet

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

in user space, the kernel has to process more than one thousand

packets.

Quoted 8 lines
Quoted 2 lines
Quoted 2 lines


Looks you found the bug then. Have you tried to fix it ?

 ...

Quoted 2 lines

The ksoftirq and the local_bh_enable() design are the root of the problem, they need to be touched/affected to solve it.

That's not what I read from your description, processing 640 packets before going to ksoftirqd seems to the be the absolute root problem.

What would a fix for that look like?

Keep track of the number of processed incoming packets, and the number of packets handed off, and defer to ksoftirqd earlier if the statistics suggest packets are getting dropped on the floor?

Is there a cheap way to do that kind of thing?

Signature · 1 line
All Rights Reversed.
maintainer
#10 lore raw

From: Rik van Riel <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 16:50:56 -0400

Quoted 27 lines · David Miller
Quoted 17 lines

From: Paolo Abeni <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 22:22:50 +0200

Quoted 5 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 4 lines · Paolo Abeni

Quoted 2 lines

If a single core host is under network flood, i.e. ksoftirqd is scheduled and it eventually (after processing ~640 packets) will

let the

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

user space process run. The latter will execute a syscall to

receive a

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

packet, which will have to disable/enable bh at least once and

that will

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

cause the processing of another ~640 packets. To receive a

single packet

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

in user space, the kernel has to process more than one thousand

packets.

Quoted 8 lines
Quoted 2 lines
Quoted 2 lines


Looks you found the bug then. Have you tried to fix it ?

 ...

Quoted 2 lines

The ksoftirq and the local_bh_enable() design are the root of the problem, they need to be touched/affected to solve it.

That's not what I read from your description, processing 640 packets before going to ksoftirqd seems to the be the absolute root problem.

Quoted 6 lines

What would a fix for that look like?

Keep track of the number of processed incoming packets, and the number of packets handed off, and defer to ksoftirqd earlier if the statistics suggest packets are getting dropped on the floor?

Not by packet count but by something more easily to measure and scalable to fairness like processing time.

#11 lore raw
Quoted 44 lines · David Miller

From: Rik van Riel <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 16:50:56 -0400

Quoted 8 lines · David Miller
Quoted 7 lines

From: Paolo Abeni <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 22:22:50 +0200

Quoted 4 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 3 lines · Paolo Abeni

Quoted 1 line

If a single core host is under network flood, i.e. ksoftirqd

is

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

scheduled and it eventually (after processing ~640 packets)

will

Quoted 4 lines
Quoted 4 lines

let the

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

user space process run. The latter will execute a syscall to

receive a

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

packet, which will have to disable/enable bh at least once

and

Quoted 4 lines
Quoted 4 lines

that will

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

cause the processing of another ~640 packets. To receive a

single packet

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

in user space, the kernel has to process more than one

thousand

Quoted 5 lines
Quoted 5 lines

packets.

Quoted 2 lines
Quoted 2 lines


Looks you found the bug then. Have you tried to fix it ?

 ...

Quoted 1 line

The ksoftirq and the local_bh_enable() design are the root of

the

Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 1 line

problem, they need to be touched/affected to solve it.


That's not what I read from your description, processing 640

packets

Quoted 1 line
Quoted 1 line

before going to ksoftirqd seems to the be the absolute root

problem.

Quoted 7 lines


What would a fix for that look like?

Keep track of the number of processed incoming packets, and the number of packets handed off, and defer to ksoftirqd earlier if the statistics suggest packets are getting dropped on the floor?

Quoted 2 lines

Not by packet count but by something more easily to measure and scalable to fairness like processing time.

I need to get back to fixing irq & softirq time accounting, which does not currently work correctly in all time keeping modes...

Signature · 1 line
All Rights Reversed.
#12 lore raw
In reply to Eric Dumazet

Hello,

Quoted 14 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 5 lines · Paolo Abeni

Currently, the softirq loop can be scheduled both inside the ksofirqd kernel thread and inside any running process. This makes nearly impossible for the process scheduler to balance in a fair way the amount of time that a given core spends performing the softirq loop.

Quoted 7 lines

Under high network load, the softirq loop can take nearly 100% of a given CPU, leaving very little time for use space processing. On single core hosts, this means that the user space can nearly starve; for example super_netperf UDP_STREAM tests towards a remote single core vCPU guest[1] can measure an aggregated throughput of a few thousands pps, and the same behavior can be reproduced even on bare-metal, eventually simulating a single core with taskset and/or sysfs configuration.

Quoted 2 lines

I hate these patches and ideas guys, sorry. That is before my breakfast, but still...

:)

Quoted 3 lines

I have enough hard time dealing with loads where ksoftirqd has to compete with user threads that thought that playing with priorities was a nice idea.

We tried a lot of approaches so far and this seemed to be the best architectural RFC we could post. I was quite surprised to see such good performance numbers with threaded NAPI, thus I think it could be a way forward.

Your mentioned problem above seems to be a configuration mistake, no? Otherwise isn't that something user space/cgroups might solve?

Quoted 4 lines

Guess what, when they lose networking they complain.

We already have ksoftirqd to normally cope with the case you are describing.

Indeed, but the time until we wake up ksoftirqd can be already quite long and for every packet we get in udp_recvmsg the local_bh_enable call let's us pick up quite a lot of new packets, which we drop before user space can make any progress. By being more fair between user space and "napid" we hoped to solve this. We also want more feedback from the scheduler people, so we Cc'ed them also.

Quoted 3 lines

If it is not working as intended, please identify the bugs and fix them, instead of adding yet another tests in fast path and extra complexity in the stack.

We could use _local_bh_enable instead of local_bh_enable in udp_recvmsg, which certainly wouldn't branch down to softirqs as often, but this feels wrong to me and certainly is.

After the discussion on netdev@ with Peter Hurley here [1] about "Softirq priority inversion from "softirq: reduce latencies"", we didn't want to propose some patch looking like this again, but this could help. The idea would be to limit the number we recheck for softirqs but give back control to user space.

[1] https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/2/27/152

If I remember local_bh_enable in kernel-rt processes one softirq directly and defers its work to ksoftirqd much more quickly.

Quoted 6 lines

In the one vcpu case, allowing the user thread to consume more UDP packets from the target UDP socket will also make your NIC drop more packets, that are not necessarily packets for the same socket.

So you are shifting the attack to a different target, at the expense of more kernel bloat.

I agree here, but I don't think this patch particularly is a lot of bloat and something very interesting people can play with and extend upon.

Thanks,
Hannes

#13 lore raw
Quoted 3 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

I agree here, but I don't think this patch particularly is a lot of bloat and something very interesting people can play with and extend upon.

Sure, very rarely patch authors think their stuff is bloat.

I prefer to fix kernel softirq.c, or at least show me that you tried hard enough.

I am pretty sure that the following would work :

When ksoftirqd is scheduled, remember this in a per cpu variable (ksoftiqd_scheduled)

When enabling BH , do not call do_softirq() if this variable is set.

ksoftirqd would clear the variable at the right place (probably in run_ksoftirqd())

Sure, this might add a lot of latency regressions, but lets fix them.

#14 lore raw
Quoted 17 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 3 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

I agree here, but I don't think this patch particularly is a lot of bloat and something very interesting people can play with and extend upon.

Sure, very rarely patch authors think their stuff is bloat.

I prefer to fix kernel softirq.c, or at least show me that you tried hard enough.

I am pretty sure that the following would work :

When ksoftirqd is scheduled, remember this in a per cpu variable (ksoftiqd_scheduled)

Quoted 6 lines

When enabling BH , do not call do_softirq() if this variable is set.

ksoftirqd would clear the variable at the right place (probably in run_ksoftirqd())

Sure, this might add a lot of latency regressions, but lets fix them.

Only to give the idea (it is completely untested and probably buggy)

kernel/softirq.c +9 -2
index 17caf4b63342..cb30cfd76687 100644
@@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ EXPORT_SYMBOL(irq_stat);
 static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
+DEFINE_PER_CPU(bool, ksoftirqd_scheduled);
 
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",
@@ -73,8 +74,10 @@ static void wakeup_softirqd(void)
 	/* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
 	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
 
-	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
+	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING) {
+		__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, true);
 		wake_up_process(tsk);
+	}
 }
 
 /*
@@ -162,7 +165,9 @@ void __local_bh_enable_ip(unsigned long ip, unsigned int cnt)
 	 */
 	preempt_count_sub(cnt - 1);
 
-	if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() && local_softirq_pending())) {
+	if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() &&
+		     local_softirq_pending() &&
+		     !__this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd_scheduled))) {
 		/*
 		 * Run softirq if any pending. And do it in its own stack
 		 * as we may be calling this deep in a task call stack already.
@@ -660,6 +665,8 @@ static void run_ksoftirqd(unsigned int cpu)
 		 * in the task stack here.
 		 */
 		__do_softirq();
+		if (!local_softirq_pending())
+			__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, false);
 		local_irq_enable();
 		cond_resched_rcu_qs();
 		return;
#15 lore raw
Quoted 66 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 21 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 6 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

I agree here, but I don't think this patch particularly is a lot of
bloat and something very interesting people can play with and extend upon.

Sure, very rarely patch authors think their stuff is bloat.

I prefer to fix kernel softirq.c, or at least show me that you tried
hard enough.

I am pretty sure that the following would work :

When ksoftirqd is scheduled, remember this in a per cpu variable (ksoftiqd_scheduled)

Quoted 8 lines

When enabling BH , do not call do_softirq() if this variable is set.

ksoftirqd would clear the variable at the right place (probably in run_ksoftirqd())

Sure, this might add a lot of latency regressions, but lets fix them.

Only to give the idea (it is completely untested and probably buggy)

kernel/softirq.c +0 -0
index 17caf4b63342..cb30cfd76687 100644
@@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ EXPORT_SYMBOL(irq_stat);

 static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp;

 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd); +DEFINE_PER_CPU(bool, ksoftirqd_scheduled);

 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = { "HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",

kernel/softirq.c +0 -0
@@ -73,8 +74,10 @@ static void wakeup_softirqd(void)
  	/* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
  	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);

kernel/softirq.c +2 -1
-	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
+	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING) {
+		__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, true);

  wake_up_process(tsk);

kernel/softirq.c +1 -0
+	}

 }

 /*

kernel/softirq.c +0 -0
@@ -162,7 +165,9 @@ void __local_bh_enable_ip(unsigned long ip,
 unsigned int cnt)
  	 */
  	preempt_count_sub(cnt - 1);

kernel/softirq.c +3 -1
-	if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() && local_softirq_pending())) {
+	if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() &&
+		     local_softirq_pending() &&
+		     !__this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd_scheduled))) {
Quoted 2 lines

  /*

You might need another one of these in invoke_softirq()

Signature · 1 line
All Rights Reversed.
#16 lore raw
Quoted 2 lines · Rik van Riel

You might need another one of these in invoke_softirq()

Excellent.

I gave it a quick try (without your suggestion), and host seems to survive a stress test.

Of course we do have to fix these problems :

[  147.781629] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.785546] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.788344] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.788992] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.790943] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.791232] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 24a
[  147.791258] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.791366] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.792118] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.793428] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48

Thanks.

#17 lore raw
Quoted 12 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 2 lines · Rik van Riel

You might need another one of these in invoke_softirq()

Excellent.

I gave it a quick try (without your suggestion), and host seems to survive a stress test.

Of course we do have to fix these problems :

Quoted 10 lines
[  147.781629] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.785546] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.788344] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.788992] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.790943] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.791232] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 24a
[  147.791258] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.791366] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.792118] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.793428] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48

Well, with your suggestion, these warnings disappear ;)

#18 lore raw
Quoted 25 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 12 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 2 lines · Rik van Riel

You might need another one of these in invoke_softirq()

Excellent.

I gave it a quick try (without your suggestion), and host seems to survive a stress test.

Of course we do have to fix these problems :

Quoted 10 lines
[  147.781629] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.785546] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.788344] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.788992] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.790943] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.791232] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 24a
[  147.791258] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.791366] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.792118] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
[  147.793428] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48
Quoted 1 line

Well, with your suggestion, these warnings disappear ;)

This is really nice.

Under stress number of context switches is really small.

ksoftirqd and my netserver compete equally to get the cpu cycles (on CPU0)

lpaa23:~# vmstat 1 10
procs -----------memory---------- ---swap-- -----io---- -system-- ----cpu----
 r  b   swpd   free   buff  cache   si   so    bi    bo   in   cs us sy id wa
 2  0      0 260668416  37240 2414428    0    0    21     0  329  349  0  3 96  0
 1  0      0 260667904  37240 2414428    0    0     0    12 193126 1050  0  2 98  0
 1  0      0 260667904  37240 2414428    0    0     0     0 194354 1056  0  2 98  0
 1  0      0 260669104  37240 2414492    0    0     0     0 200897 1095  0  2 98  0
 1  0      0 260668592  37240 2414492    0    0     0     0 205731  964  0  2 98  0
 1  0      0 260678832  37240 2414492    0    0     0     0 201689  981  0  2 98  0
 1  0      0 260678832  37240 2414492    0    0     0     0 204899  742  0  2 98  0
 1  0      0 260678320  37240 2414492    0    0     0     0 199148  792  0  3 97  0
 1  0      0 260678832  37240 2414492    0    0     0     0 196398  766  0  2 98  0
 1  0      0 260678832  37240 2414492    0    0     0     0 201930  858  0  2 98  0

And we can see that ksoftirqd/0 runs for longer periods (~500 usec), instead of stupid 4 usec before the patch. Less overhead.

lpaa23:~# cat /proc/3/sched
ksoftirqd/0 (3, #threads: 1)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
se.exec_start                                :       1552401.399526
se.vruntime                                  :        237599.421560
se.sum_exec_runtime                          :         75432.494199
se.nr_migrations                             :                    0
nr_switches                                  :               144333
nr_voluntary_switches                        :               143828
nr_involuntary_switches                      :                  505
se.load.weight                               :                 1024
se.avg.load_sum                              :                10445
se.avg.util_sum                              :                10445
se.avg.load_avg                              :                    0
se.avg.util_avg                              :                    0
se.avg.last_update_time                      :        1552401399526
policy                                       :                    0
prio                                         :                  120
clock-delta                                  :                   47
lpaa23:~# echo 75432.494199/144333|bc -l
.52262818758703830724

And yes indeed, user space can progress way faster under flood.

lpaa23:~# nstat >/dev/null;sleep 1;nstat | grep Udp
UdpInDatagrams                  186132             0.0
UdpInErrors                     735462             0.0
UdpOutDatagrams                 10                 0.0
UdpRcvbufErrors                 735461             0.0
#19 lore raw
In reply to Eric Dumazet
Quoted 12 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 3 lines · Rik van Riel

You might need another one of these in invoke_softirq()

Excellent.

I gave it a quick try (without your suggestion), and host seems to survive a stress test.

Of course we do have to fix these problems :

Quoted 10 lines

[  147.781629] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48 [  147.785546] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48 [  147.788344] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48 [  147.788992] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48 [  147.790943] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48 [  147.791232] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 24a [  147.791258] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48 [  147.791366] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48 [  147.792118] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48 [  147.793428] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 48

As long as ksoftirqd is running, that should not be an actual problem, just a false positive.

Signature · 1 line
All Rights Reversed.
#20 lore raw
In reply to Eric Dumazet
Quoted 9 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 2 lines · Rik van Riel

You might need another one of these in invoke_softirq()

Excellent.

I gave it a quick try (without your suggestion), and host seems to survive a stress test.

Well, we instantly trigger rcu issues.

How to reproduce :

netserver &
for i in seq 1 100
do
netperf -H 127.0.0.1 -t TCP_RR -l 1000 &
done

# local hack to enable the new behavior
# without having to add a new sysctl, but hacking an existing one
echo 1001 >/proc/sys/net/core/netdev_max_backlog

<bang :>

[  236.977511] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977512] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977515] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977518] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977519] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977521] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977522] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977523] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977525] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977526] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977527] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977529] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977530] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977532] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977532] 	47-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=8d1/1/0 softirq=2500/2506 fqs=1 
[  236.977535] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977536] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.977540] 	36-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=d05/1/0 softirq=2637/2644 fqs=1 
[  236.977546] 	
[  236.977546] 	38-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=a5b/1/0 softirq=2612/2618 fqs=1 
[  236.977549] 	0-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=c39/1/0 softirq=15315/15321 fqs=1 
[  236.977551] 	24-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=ea3/1/0 softirq=2455/2461 fqs=1 
[  236.977554] 	18-...: (20995 ticks this GP) idle=ef5/1/0 softirq=8530/8530 fqs=1 
[  236.977556] 	39-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=f9d/1/0 softirq=2144/2150 fqs=1 
[  236.977558] 	
[  236.977558] 	22-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=5a7/1/0 softirq=10238/10244 fqs=1 
[  236.977561] 	7-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=323/1/0 softirq=5279/5285 fqs=1 
[  236.977563] 	31-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=47d/1/0 softirq=2526/2532 fqs=1 
[  236.977565] 	33-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=175/1/0 softirq=2060/2066 fqs=1 
[  236.977568] 	10-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=c3d/1/0 softirq=4864/4870 fqs=1 
[  236.977570] 	34-...: (20995 ticks this GP) idle=dd5/1/0 softirq=2243/2243 fqs=1 
[  236.977574] 	
[  236.977574] 	37-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=aef/1/0 softirq=2660/2666 fqs=1 
[  236.977576] 	13-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=a2b/1/0 softirq=9928/9934 fqs=1 
[  236.977578] 	
[  236.977578] 	
[  236.977579] 	
[  236.977580] 	
[  236.977582] 	
[  236.977583] 	
[  236.977583] 	
[  236.977584] 	
[  236.977584] 	
[  236.977586] 	
[  236.977587] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977588] 	
[  236.977589] 	
[  236.977595] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977603] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977607] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977609] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977610] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977612] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977614] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977616] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977618] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977619] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977620] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977622] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977626] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.977627] rcu_sched kthread starved for 20997 jiffies! g33049 c33048 f0x0 RCU_GP_WAIT_FQS(3) ->state=0x1
[  236.978512] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978512] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978514] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978516] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978517] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978518] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978519] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978520] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978521] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978522] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978523] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978524] INFO: rcu_sched self-detected stall on CPU
[  236.978532] 	45-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=8ed/1/0 softirq=3047/3053 fqs=1 
[  236.978534] 	19-...: (20996 ticks this GP) idle=b5d/1/0 softirq=8157/8157 fqs=1 
[  236.978538] 	17-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=5ad/1/0 softirq=7839/7845 fqs=1 
[  236.978539] 	41-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=f4f/1/0 softirq=2345/2351 fqs=1 
[  236.978542] 	6-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=a39/1/0 softirq=5492/5498 fqs=1 
[  236.978544] 	30-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=c51/1/0 softirq=2499/2505 fqs=1 
[  236.978546] 	5-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=917/1/0 softirq=5196/5202 fqs=1 
[  236.978548] 	26-...: (20996 ticks this GP) idle=c61/1/0 softirq=2863/2863 fqs=1 
[  236.978550] 	32-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=8db/1/0 softirq=2588/2594 fqs=1 
[  236.978552] 	35-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=351/1/0 softirq=1869/1875 fqs=1 
[  236.978554] 	8-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=221/1/0 softirq=5192/5198 fqs=1 
[  236.978556] 	11-...: (1 GPs behind) idle=485/1/0 softirq=4480/4486 fqs=1 
[  236.978557] 	
[  236.978558] 	
[  236.978559] 	
[  236.978560] 	
[  236.978561] 	

Tentative proto / patch (not including Peter suggestions yet)

kernel/softirq.c +17 -2
index 17caf4b63342..be94e0241a70 100644
@@ -56,6 +56,14 @@ EXPORT_SYMBOL(irq_stat);
 static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
+DEFINE_PER_CPU(bool, ksoftirqd_scheduled);
+
+static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)
+{
+	extern int netdev_max_backlog; /* temp hack */
+
+	return (netdev_max_backlog & 1) && __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd_scheduled);
+}
 
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",
@@ -73,8 +81,10 @@ static void wakeup_softirqd(void)
 	/* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
 	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
 
-	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
+	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING) {
+		__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, true);
 		wake_up_process(tsk);
+	}
 }
 
 /*
@@ -313,7 +323,7 @@ asmlinkage __visible void do_softirq(void)
 
 	pending = local_softirq_pending();
 
-	if (pending)
+	if (pending && !ksoftirqd_running())
 		do_softirq_own_stack();
 
 	local_irq_restore(flags);
@@ -340,6 +350,9 @@ void irq_enter(void)
 
 static inline void invoke_softirq(void)
 {
+	if (ksoftirqd_running())
+		return;
+
 	if (!force_irqthreads) {
 #ifdef CONFIG_HAVE_IRQ_EXIT_ON_IRQ_STACK
 		/*
@@ -660,6 +673,8 @@ static void run_ksoftirqd(unsigned int cpu)
 		 * in the task stack here.
 		 */
 		__do_softirq();
+		if (!local_softirq_pending())
+			__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, false);
 		local_irq_enable();
 		cond_resched_rcu_qs();
 		return;
#21 lore raw
In reply to Eric Dumazet
Quoted 17 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 3 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

I agree here, but I don't think this patch particularly is a lot of bloat and something very interesting people can play with and extend upon.

Sure, very rarely patch authors think their stuff is bloat.

I prefer to fix kernel softirq.c, or at least show me that you tried hard enough.

I am pretty sure that the following would work :

When ksoftirqd is scheduled, remember this in a per cpu variable (ksoftiqd_scheduled)

Quoted 6 lines

When enabling BH , do not call do_softirq() if this variable is set.

ksoftirqd would clear the variable at the right place (probably in run_ksoftirqd())

Sure, this might add a lot of latency regressions, but lets fix them.

Probably, yes.

We had a version which limited the number of restarts if softirqs were invoked from local_bh_enable (so that at least timers etc. would run) and would defer all other work to ksoftirqd. That also solved the initial live lock problem. I do have concerns about the fairness of this approach, but we now have to investigate this. ;)

Not only did we want to present this solely as a bugfix but also as as performance enhancements in case of virtio (as you can see in the cover letter). Given that a long time ago there was a tendency to remove softirqs completely, we thought it might be very interesting, that a threaded napi in general seems to be absolutely viable nowadays and might offer new features.

Bye,
Hannes

#22 lore raw
Quoted 6 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

Not only did we want to present this solely as a bugfix but also as as performance enhancements in case of virtio (as you can see in the cover letter). Given that a long time ago there was a tendency to remove softirqs completely, we thought it might be very interesting, that a threaded napi in general seems to be absolutely viable nowadays and might offer new features.

Well, you did not fix the bug, you worked around by adding yet another layer, with another sysctl that admins or programs have to manage.

If you have a special need for virtio, do not hide it behind a 'bug fix' but add it as a features request.

This ksoftirqd issue is real and a fix looks very reasonable.

Please try this patch, as I had very good success with it.

Thanks.

kernel/softirq.c +12 -2
index 17caf4b63342..22463217e3cf 100644
@@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ EXPORT_SYMBOL(irq_stat);
 static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
+DEFINE_PER_CPU(bool, ksoftirqd_scheduled);
 
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",
@@ -73,8 +74,10 @@ static void wakeup_softirqd(void)
 	/* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
 	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
 
-	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
+	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING) {
+		__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, true);
 		wake_up_process(tsk);
+	}
 }
 
 /*
@@ -162,7 +165,9 @@ void __local_bh_enable_ip(unsigned long ip, unsigned int cnt)
 	 */
 	preempt_count_sub(cnt - 1);
 
-	if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() && local_softirq_pending())) {
+	if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() &&
+		     local_softirq_pending() &&
+		     !__this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd_scheduled))) {
 		/*
 		 * Run softirq if any pending. And do it in its own stack
 		 * as we may be calling this deep in a task call stack already.
@@ -340,6 +345,9 @@ void irq_enter(void)
 
 static inline void invoke_softirq(void)
 {
+	if (__this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd_scheduled))
+		return;
+
 	if (!force_irqthreads) {
 #ifdef CONFIG_HAVE_IRQ_EXIT_ON_IRQ_STACK
 		/*
@@ -660,6 +668,8 @@ static void run_ksoftirqd(unsigned int cpu)
 		 * in the task stack here.
 		 */
 		__do_softirq();
+		if (!local_softirq_pending())
+			__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, false);
 		local_irq_enable();
 		cond_resched_rcu_qs();
 		return;
#23 lore raw
Quoted 13 lines · Eric Dumazet
kernel/softirq.c +1 -0
index 17caf4b63342..22463217e3cf 100644
@@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ EXPORT_SYMBOL(irq_stat);
 static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
+DEFINE_PER_CPU(bool, ksoftirqd_scheduled);
 
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",

kernel/softirq.c static void wakeup_softirqd(void) · line 79

Quoted 7 lines
kernel/softirq.c +2 -1
@@ -73,8 +74,10 @@ static void wakeup_softirqd(void)
 	/* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
 	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
 
-	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
+	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING) {
+		__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, true);
 		wake_up_process(tsk);

Since we're already looking at tsk->state, and the wake_up_process() ensures the thing becomes TASK_RUNNING, you could add:

static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)

{
	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;
}

kernel/softirq.c void __local_bh_enable_ip(unsigned long ip, unsigned int cnt) · line 170

Quoted 12 lines
kernel/softirq.c +4 -1
+	}
 }
 
 /*
@@ -162,7 +165,9 @@ void __local_bh_enable_ip(unsigned long ip, unsigned int cnt)
 	 */
 	preempt_count_sub(cnt - 1);
 
-	if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() && local_softirq_pending())) {
+	if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() &&
+		     local_softirq_pending() &&
+		     !__this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd_scheduled))) {

And use it here,

kernel/softirq.c void irq_enter(void) · line 348

Quoted 8 lines
kernel/softirq.c +1 -0
 		/*
 		 * Run softirq if any pending. And do it in its own stack
 		 * as we may be calling this deep in a task call stack already.
@@ -340,6 +345,9 @@ void irq_enter(void)
 
 static inline void invoke_softirq(void)
 {
+	if (__this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd_scheduled))

and here.

kernel/softirq.c static void run_ksoftirqd(unsigned int cpu) · line 672

Quoted 11 lines
kernel/softirq.c +4 -0
+		return;
+
 	if (!force_irqthreads) {
 #ifdef CONFIG_HAVE_IRQ_EXIT_ON_IRQ_STACK
 		/*
@@ -660,6 +668,8 @@ static void run_ksoftirqd(unsigned int cpu)
 		 * in the task stack here.
 		 */
 		__do_softirq();
+		if (!local_softirq_pending())
+			__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, false);

And avoid twiddling the new variable which only seems to mirror tsk->state.

Quoted 5 lines
kernel/softirq.c +0 -0
 		local_irq_enable();
 		cond_resched_rcu_qs();
 		return;
#24 lore raw
Quoted 25 lines · Peter Zijlstra
Quoted 13 lines · Eric Dumazet
kernel/softirq.c +1 -0
index 17caf4b63342..22463217e3cf 100644
@@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ EXPORT_SYMBOL(irq_stat);
 static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
+DEFINE_PER_CPU(bool, ksoftirqd_scheduled);
 
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",

kernel/softirq.c static void wakeup_softirqd(void) · line 79

Quoted 7 lines
kernel/softirq.c +2 -1
@@ -73,8 +74,10 @@ static void wakeup_softirqd(void)
 	/* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
 	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
 
-	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
+	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING) {
+		__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, true);
 		wake_up_process(tsk);

Since we're already looking at tsk->state, and the wake_up_process() ensures the thing becomes TASK_RUNNING, you could add:

Quoted 4 lines

static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)

{
	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;
}

This looks racy to me as the ksoftirqd could be in the progress to stop and we would miss another softirq invocation.

Thanks,
Hannes

#25 lore raw
Quoted 2 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

This looks racy to me as the ksoftirqd could be in the progress to stop and we would miss another softirq invocation.

Looking at smpboot_thread_fn(), it looks fine :

                if (!ht->thread_should_run(td->cpu)) {
                        preempt_enable_no_resched();
                        schedule();
                } else {
                        __set_current_state(TASK_RUNNING);
                        preempt_enable();
                        ht->thread_fn(td->cpu);
                }
#26 lore raw
Quoted 9 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 3 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

This looks racy to me as the ksoftirqd could be in the progress to stop
and we would miss another softirq invocation.

Looking at smpboot_thread_fn(), it looks fine :

Additionally, we are talking about waking up ksoftirqd on the same CPU.

That means the wakeup code could interrupt ksoftirqd almost going to sleep, but the two code paths could not run simultaneously.

That does narrow the scope considerably.

Signature · 1 line
All rights reversed
#27 lore raw
In reply to Eric Dumazet
Quoted 8 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 2 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

This looks racy to me as the ksoftirqd could be in the progress to stop and we would miss another softirq invocation.

Looking at smpboot_thread_fn(), it looks fine :

Quoted 8 lines
                if (!ht->thread_should_run(td->cpu)) {
                        preempt_enable_no_resched();
                        schedule();
                } else {
                        __set_current_state(TASK_RUNNING);
                        preempt_enable();
                        ht->thread_fn(td->cpu);
                }

BTW, I wonder why we pass td->cpu as argument to ht->thread_fn(td->cpu)

This always should be the current processor id.

Or do we have an issue because we ignore it in :

static int ksoftirqd_should_run(unsigned int cpu)

{
        return local_softirq_pending();
}
#28 lore raw
In reply to Peter Zijlstra
Quoted 25 lines · Peter Zijlstra
Quoted 13 lines · Eric Dumazet
kernel/softirq.c +1 -0
index 17caf4b63342..22463217e3cf 100644
@@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ EXPORT_SYMBOL(irq_stat);
 static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
+DEFINE_PER_CPU(bool, ksoftirqd_scheduled);
 
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",

kernel/softirq.c static void wakeup_softirqd(void) · line 79

Quoted 7 lines
kernel/softirq.c +2 -1
@@ -73,8 +74,10 @@ static void wakeup_softirqd(void)
 	/* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
 	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
 
-	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
+	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING) {
+		__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, true);
 		wake_up_process(tsk);

Since we're already looking at tsk->state, and the wake_up_process() ensures the thing becomes TASK_RUNNING, you could add:

Quoted 4 lines

static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)

{
	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;
}

Indeed, and the patch looks quite simple now ;)

kernel/softirq.c +9 -1
index 17caf4b63342d7839528f367b283a386413b0362..23c364485d03618773c385d943c0ef39f5931d09 100644
@@ -57,6 +57,11 @@ static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
 
+static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)
+{
+	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;
+}
+
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",
 	"TASKLET", "SCHED", "HRTIMER", "RCU"
@@ -313,7 +318,7 @@ asmlinkage __visible void do_softirq(void)
 
 	pending = local_softirq_pending();
 
-	if (pending)
+	if (pending && !ksoftirqd_running())
 		do_softirq_own_stack();
 
 	local_irq_restore(flags);
@@ -340,6 +345,9 @@ void irq_enter(void)
 
 static inline void invoke_softirq(void)
 {
+	if (ksoftirqd_running())
+		return;
+
 	if (!force_irqthreads) {
 #ifdef CONFIG_HAVE_IRQ_EXIT_ON_IRQ_STACK
 		/*
author maintainer
#29 lore raw
Quoted 26 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 25 lines · Peter Zijlstra
Quoted 13 lines · Eric Dumazet
kernel/softirq.c +1 -0
index 17caf4b63342..22463217e3cf 100644
@@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ EXPORT_SYMBOL(irq_stat);
 static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
+DEFINE_PER_CPU(bool, ksoftirqd_scheduled);
 
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",

kernel/softirq.c static void wakeup_softirqd(void) · line 79

Quoted 7 lines
kernel/softirq.c +2 -1
@@ -73,8 +74,10 @@ static void wakeup_softirqd(void)
 	/* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
 	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
 
-	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
+	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING) {
+		__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, true);
 		wake_up_process(tsk);

Since we're already looking at tsk->state, and the wake_up_process() ensures the thing becomes TASK_RUNNING, you could add:

Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 3 lines

static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)

{
	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;

here something like:

	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
        return tsk && (tsk->state == TASK_RUNNING);

is needed since __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd) can be NULL on boot.

Quoted 41 lines
Quoted 1 line

}

Indeed, and the patch looks quite simple now ;)

kernel/softirq.c +9 -1
index 17caf4b63342d7839528f367b283a386413b0362..23c364485d03618773c385d943c0ef39f5931d09 100644
@@ -57,6 +57,11 @@ static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
 
+static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)
+{
+	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;
+}
+
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",
 	"TASKLET", "SCHED", "HRTIMER", "RCU"
@@ -313,7 +318,7 @@ asmlinkage __visible void do_softirq(void)
 
 	pending = local_softirq_pending();
 
-	if (pending)
+	if (pending && !ksoftirqd_running())
 		do_softirq_own_stack();
 
 	local_irq_restore(flags);
@@ -340,6 +345,9 @@ void irq_enter(void)
 
 static inline void invoke_softirq(void)
 {
+	if (ksoftirqd_running())
+		return;
+
 	if (!force_irqthreads) {
 #ifdef CONFIG_HAVE_IRQ_EXIT_ON_IRQ_STACK
 		/*
#30 lore raw
Quoted 10 lines · Paolo Abeni
Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 3 lines

static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)

{
	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;

here something like:

	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
        return tsk && (tsk->state == TASK_RUNNING);

is needed since __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd) can be NULL on boot.

Indeed I've seen this but only when backporting to an older linux kernel this morning.

Have you got this with current linux kernel ?

author maintainer
#31 lore raw
Quoted 11 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 9 lines · Paolo Abeni
Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 3 lines

static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)

{
	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;

here something like:

	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
        return tsk && (tsk->state == TASK_RUNNING);
Quoted 6 lines
Quoted 1 line

is needed since __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd) can be NULL on boot.

Indeed I've seen this but only when backporting to an older linux kernel this morning.

Have you got this with current linux kernel ?

Yes, on net-next updated to

commit c66b2581123cd1527b6a084f39e9271cb02673b7

Author: Sergei Shtylyov <[email protected]>
Date:   Sat May 7 14:09:01 2016 -0700

sh_eth: reuse sh_eth_chip_reset()

Cheers,

Paolo

#32 lore raw
Quoted 19 lines · Paolo Abeni
Quoted 11 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 9 lines · Paolo Abeni
Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 3 lines

static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)

{
	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;

here something like:

	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
        return tsk && (tsk->state == TASK_RUNNING);
Quoted 6 lines
Quoted 1 line

is needed since __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd) can be NULL on boot.

Indeed I've seen this but only when backporting to an older linux kernel this morning.

Have you got this with current linux kernel ?

Quoted 8 lines

Yes, on net-next updated to

commit c66b2581123cd1527b6a084f39e9271cb02673b7

Author: Sergei Shtylyov <[email protected]>
Date:   Sat May 7 14:09:01 2016 -0700

sh_eth: reuse sh_eth_chip_reset()

Yeah, I was unsure if the same test in wakeup_softirqd() was still relevant today.

static void wakeup_softirqd(void)

{
        /* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
        struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);

        if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
                wake_up_process(tsk);
}

I guess we could avoid the NULL test if all these per_cpu var where pointing to a dummy task_struct at boot time, before they are properly allocated.

author maintainer
#33 lore raw
In reply to Eric Dumazet
Quoted 59 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 25 lines · Peter Zijlstra
Quoted 13 lines · Eric Dumazet
kernel/softirq.c +1 -0
index 17caf4b63342..22463217e3cf 100644
@@ -56,6 +56,7 @@ EXPORT_SYMBOL(irq_stat);
 static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp;
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
+DEFINE_PER_CPU(bool, ksoftirqd_scheduled);
 
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",

kernel/softirq.c static void wakeup_softirqd(void) · line 79

Quoted 7 lines
kernel/softirq.c +2 -1
@@ -73,8 +74,10 @@ static void wakeup_softirqd(void)
 	/* Interrupts are disabled: no need to stop preemption */
 	struct task_struct *tsk = __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd);
 
-	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING)
+	if (tsk && tsk->state != TASK_RUNNING) {
+		__this_cpu_write(ksoftirqd_scheduled, true);
 		wake_up_process(tsk);

Since we're already looking at tsk->state, and the wake_up_process() ensures the thing becomes TASK_RUNNING, you could add:

Quoted 4 lines

static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)

{
	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;
}

Indeed, and the patch looks quite simple now ;)

kernel/softirq.c +6 -1
index 17caf4b63342d7839528f367b283a386413b0362..23c364485d03618773c385d943c0ef39f5931d09 100644
@@ -57,6 +57,11 @@ static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
 
+static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)
+{
+	return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;
+}
+
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
 	"HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",
 	"TASKLET", "SCHED", "HRTIMER", "RCU"
@@ -313,7 +318,7 @@ asmlinkage __visible void do_softirq(void)
 
 	pending = local_softirq_pending();
 
-	if (pending)
+	if (pending && !ksoftirqd_running())
 		do_softirq_own_stack();
 
 	local_irq_restore(flags);

kernel/softirq.c void irq_enter(void) · line 353

Quoted 9 lines
kernel/softirq.c +3 -0
@@ -340,6 +345,9 @@ void irq_enter(void)
 
 static inline void invoke_softirq(void)
 {
+	if (ksoftirqd_running())
+		return;
+
 	if (!force_irqthreads) {
 #ifdef CONFIG_HAVE_IRQ_EXIT_ON_IRQ_STACK
 		/*

In this version of the path, the chunk affecting __local_bh_enable_ip() has been removed.

I think it is beneficial, because it allows avoiding a local_irq_save()/local_irq_restore() pairs per local_bh_enable under heavy load.

Cheers,

Paolo

#34 lore raw
Quoted 41 lines · Paolo Abeni
Quoted 28 lines

Indeed, and the patch looks quite simple now ;)

kernel/softirq.c +6 -1
index 17caf4b63342d7839528f367b283a386413b0362..23c364485d03618773c385d943c0ef39f5931d09 100644
@@ -57,6 +57,11 @@ static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
 
+static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)
+{
+     return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;
+}
+
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
      "HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",
      "TASKLET", "SCHED", "HRTIMER", "RCU"
@@ -313,7 +318,7 @@ asmlinkage __visible void do_softirq(void)
 
      pending = local_softirq_pending();
 
-     if (pending)
+     if (pending && !ksoftirqd_running())
              do_softirq_own_stack();
 
      local_irq_restore(flags);

kernel/softirq.c void irq_enter(void) · line 353

Quoted 9 lines
kernel/softirq.c +3 -0
@@ -340,6 +345,9 @@ void irq_enter(void)
 
 static inline void invoke_softirq(void)
 {
+     if (ksoftirqd_running())
+             return;
+
      if (!force_irqthreads) {
 #ifdef CONFIG_HAVE_IRQ_EXIT_ON_IRQ_STACK
              /*

In this version of the path, the chunk affecting __local_bh_enable_ip() has been removed.

Quoted 3 lines

I think it is beneficial, because it allows avoiding a local_irq_save()/local_irq_restore() pairs per local_bh_enable under heavy load.

Interesting, do you have any numbers ?

I believe I did this so that we factorize the logic in do_softirq() and keep the code local to kernel/softirq.c

Otherwise, netif_rx_ni() could also process softirq while ksoftirqd was scheduled,
so I would have to 'export' the ksoftirqd_running(void) helper in an include file.

I noticed that simply doing a "ping -n gateway" while the UDP flood was occurring, my udp receiver had quite a different efficiency.

Thanks.

author maintainer
#35 lore raw
Quoted 43 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 41 lines · Paolo Abeni
Quoted 28 lines

Indeed, and the patch looks quite simple now ;)

kernel/softirq.c +6 -1
index 17caf4b63342d7839528f367b283a386413b0362..23c364485d03618773c385d943c0ef39f5931d09 100644
@@ -57,6 +57,11 @@ static struct softirq_action softirq_vec[NR_SOFTIRQS] __cacheline_aligned_in_smp
 
 DEFINE_PER_CPU(struct task_struct *, ksoftirqd);
 
+static inline bool ksoftirqd_running(void)
+{
+     return __this_cpu_read(ksoftirqd)->state == TASK_RUNNING;
+}
+
 const char * const softirq_to_name[NR_SOFTIRQS] = {
      "HI", "TIMER", "NET_TX", "NET_RX", "BLOCK", "BLOCK_IOPOLL",
      "TASKLET", "SCHED", "HRTIMER", "RCU"
@@ -313,7 +318,7 @@ asmlinkage __visible void do_softirq(void)
 
      pending = local_softirq_pending();
 
-     if (pending)
+     if (pending && !ksoftirqd_running())
              do_softirq_own_stack();
 
      local_irq_restore(flags);

kernel/softirq.c void irq_enter(void) · line 353

Quoted 9 lines
kernel/softirq.c +3 -0
@@ -340,6 +345,9 @@ void irq_enter(void)
 
 static inline void invoke_softirq(void)
 {
+     if (ksoftirqd_running())
+             return;
+
      if (!force_irqthreads) {
 #ifdef CONFIG_HAVE_IRQ_EXIT_ON_IRQ_STACK
              /*

In this version of the path, the chunk affecting __local_bh_enable_ip() has been removed.

Quoted 5 lines
Quoted 3 lines

I think it is beneficial, because it allows avoiding a local_irq_save()/local_irq_restore() pairs per local_bh_enable under heavy load.

Interesting, do you have any numbers ?

The difference is small, in the noise range:

[with this patch applied]
super_netperf 100 -H 192.168.122.1 -t UDP_STREAM -l 60 -- -m 1 9.00

[adding the test into __local_bh_enable_ip(), too] super_netperf 100 -H 192.168.122.1 -t UDP_STREAM -l 60 -- -m 1 9.14

but reproducible, in my experiments.
I have similar data for different number of flows.

Quoted 7 lines

I believe I did this so that we factorize the logic in do_softirq() and keep the code local to kernel/softirq.c

Otherwise, netif_rx_ni() could also process softirq while ksoftirqd was scheduled,
so I would have to 'export' the ksoftirqd_running(void) helper in an include file.

The idea could be to add the test in __local_bh_enable_ip(), maintaining the test also in do_softirq() (as currently done, i.e for local_softirq_pending())

Cheers,

Paolo

#36 lore raw
Quoted 16 lines · Paolo Abeni

The difference is small, in the noise range:

[with this patch applied]
super_netperf 100 -H 192.168.122.1 -t UDP_STREAM -l 60 -- -m 1 9.00

[adding the test into __local_bh_enable_ip(), too] super_netperf 100 -H 192.168.122.1 -t UDP_STREAM -l 60 -- -m 1 9.14

but reproducible, in my experiments.
I have similar data for different number of flows.

Quoted 3 lines

I believe I did this so that we factorize the logic in do_softirq() and keep the code local to kernel/softirq.c

Quoted 9 lines
Quoted 4 lines

Otherwise, netif_rx_ni() could also process softirq while ksoftirqd was scheduled,
so I would have to 'export' the ksoftirqd_running(void) helper in an include file.

The idea could be to add the test in __local_bh_enable_ip(), maintaining the test also in do_softirq() (as currently done, i.e for local_softirq_pending())

Then I guess even the !in_interrupt() test we do is expensive and could be avoided,
since do_softirq() is doing it again in the unlikely case it really is needed.

@@ -162,7 +170,8 @@ void __local_bh_enable_ip(unsigned long ip, unsigned int cnt)

         */
        preempt_count_sub(cnt - 1);

- if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() && local_softirq_pending())) {
+ if (unlikely(local_softirq_pending()) &&
+ !ksoftirqd_running()) {
/*
* Run softirq if any pending. And do it in its own stack
* as we may be calling this deep in a task call stack already.

author maintainer
#37 lore raw
Quoted 42 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 16 lines · Paolo Abeni

The difference is small, in the noise range:

[with this patch applied]
super_netperf 100 -H 192.168.122.1 -t UDP_STREAM -l 60 -- -m 1 9.00

[adding the test into __local_bh_enable_ip(), too] super_netperf 100 -H 192.168.122.1 -t UDP_STREAM -l 60 -- -m 1 9.14

but reproducible, in my experiments.
I have similar data for different number of flows.

Quoted 3 lines

I believe I did this so that we factorize the logic in do_softirq() and keep the code local to kernel/softirq.c

Quoted 9 lines
Quoted 4 lines

Otherwise, netif_rx_ni() could also process softirq while ksoftirqd was scheduled,
so I would have to 'export' the ksoftirqd_running(void) helper in an include file.

The idea could be to add the test in __local_bh_enable_ip(), maintaining the test also in do_softirq() (as currently done, i.e for local_softirq_pending())

Then I guess even the !in_interrupt() test we do is expensive and could be avoided,
since do_softirq() is doing it again in the unlikely case it really is needed.

(quoted diff) +2 -1
@@ -162,7 +170,8 @@ void __local_bh_enable_ip(unsigned long ip,
 unsigned int cnt)
         */
        preempt_count_sub(cnt - 1);
 
-       if (unlikely(!in_interrupt() && local_softirq_pending())) {
+       if (unlikely(local_softirq_pending()) &&
+                    !ksoftirqd_running()) {
                /*
                 * Run softirq if any pending. And do it in its own stack
Quoted 1 line

* as we may be calling this deep in a task call stack already.

I'm sorry for the not-so-prompt reply. I had to use a different H/W, so I had to re-run the tests with all the patch flavors to get comparable results.

While I can confirm that adding the '!ksoftirqd_running()' condition improves the throughput a little, but in a reproducible way, removing the '!in_interrupt()' don't change the result measurably, in my environment.

While running the test against a kernel with the above chunk applied I got a couple of:

[  702.791025] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 08

Not seen with the other versions of this patch.

Cheers,

Paolo

#38 lore raw
Quoted 10 lines · Paolo Abeni

I'm sorry for the not-so-prompt reply. I had to use a different H/W, so I had to re-run the tests with all the patch flavors to get comparable results.

While I can confirm that adding the '!ksoftirqd_running()' condition improves the throughput a little, but in a reproducible way, removing the '!in_interrupt()' don't change the result measurably, in my environment.

Quoted 6 lines

While running the test against a kernel with the above chunk applied I got a couple of:

[  702.791025] NOHZ: local_softirq_pending 08

Not seen with the other versions of this patch.

I've seen this message in all versions, depending on the workload.

Either a barrier of some kind is missing, or we uncover an existing bug.

Note that in my tests on an older base kernel (something based on 3.11 but with thousands of patches),
I would not have the scary rcu messages that I got with current upstream kernels.

author maintainer
#39 lore raw
In reply to Eric Dumazet

Hi Eric,

Quoted 12 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 6 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

Not only did we want to present this solely as a bugfix but also as as performance enhancements in case of virtio (as you can see in the cover letter). Given that a long time ago there was a tendency to remove softirqs completely, we thought it might be very interesting, that a threaded napi in general seems to be absolutely viable nowadays and might offer new features.

Well, you did not fix the bug, you worked around by adding yet another layer, with another sysctl that admins or programs have to manage.

Quoted 6 lines

If you have a special need for virtio, do not hide it behind a 'bug fix' but add it as a features request.

This ksoftirqd issue is real and a fix looks very reasonable.

Please try this patch, as I had very good success with it.

Thank you for your time and your effort.

I tested your patch on the bare metal "single core" scenario, disabling the unneeded cores with:
CPUS=nproc
for I in seq 1 $CPUS; do echo 0 > /sys/devices/system/node/node0/cpu$I/online; done

And I got a:

[   86.925249] Broke affinity for irq <num>

for each irq number generated by a network device.

In this scenario, your patch solves the ksoftirqd issue, performing comparable to the napi threaded patches (with a negative delta in the noise range) and introducing a minor regression with a single flow, in the noise range (3%).

As said in a previous mail, we actually experimented something similar, but it felt quite hackish.

AFAICS this patch adds three more tests in the fast path and affect all other softirq use case. I'm not sure how to check for regression there.

The napi thread patches are actually a new feature, that also fixes the ksoftirqd issue: hunting the ksoftirqd issue has been the initial trigger for this work. I'm sorry for not being clear enough in the cover letter.

The napi thread patches offer additional benefits, i.e. an additional relevant gain in the described test scenario, and do not impact on other subsystems/kernel entities.

I still think they are worthy, and I bet you would disagree, but could you please articulate more which parts concern you most and/or are more bloated ?

Thank you,

Paolo

#40 lore raw
Quoted 23 lines · Paolo Abeni

Hi Eric,

Quoted 12 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 6 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

Not only did we want to present this solely as a bugfix but also as as performance enhancements in case of virtio (as you can see in the cover letter). Given that a long time ago there was a tendency to remove softirqs completely, we thought it might be very interesting, that a threaded napi in general seems to be absolutely viable nowadays and might offer new features.

Well, you did not fix the bug, you worked around by adding yet another layer, with another sysctl that admins or programs have to manage.

Quoted 6 lines

If you have a special need for virtio, do not hide it behind a 'bug fix' but add it as a features request.

This ksoftirqd issue is real and a fix looks very reasonable.

Please try this patch, as I had very good success with it.

Thank you for your time and your effort.

Quoted 9 lines

I tested your patch on the bare metal "single core" scenario, disabling the unneeded cores with:
CPUS=nproc
for I in seq 1 $CPUS; do echo 0 > /sys/devices/system/node/node0/cpu$I/online; done

And I got a:

[   86.925249] Broke affinity for irq <num>

Was it fatal, or simply a warning that you are removing the cpu that was the only allowed cpu in an affinity_mask ?

Looks another bug to fix then ? We disabled CPU hotplug here at Google for our production, as it was notoriously buggy. No time to fix dozens of issues added by a crowd of developers that do not even know a cpu can be unplugged.

Maybe some caller of local_bh_disable()/local_bh_enable() expected that current softirq would be processed. Obviously flaky even before the patches.

Quoted 9 lines

for each irq number generated by a network device.

In this scenario, your patch solves the ksoftirqd issue, performing comparable to the napi threaded patches (with a negative delta in the noise range) and introducing a minor regression with a single flow, in the noise range (3%).

As said in a previous mail, we actually experimented something similar, but it felt quite hackish.

Right, we are networking guys, and we feel that messing with such core infra is not for us. So we feel comfortable adding a pure networking patch.

Quoted 3 lines

AFAICS this patch adds three more tests in the fast path and affect all other softirq use case. I'm not sure how to check for regression there.

It is obvious to me that ksoftird mechanism is not working as intended.

Fixing it might uncover bugs from parts of the kernel relying on the bug, indirectly or directly. Is it a good thing ?

I can not tell before trying.

Just by looking at /proc/{ksoftirqs_pid}/sched you can see the problem, as we normally schedule ksoftird under stress but most of the time, the softirq items were processed by another tasks as you found out.

Quoted 6 lines

The napi thread patches are actually a new feature, that also fixes the ksoftirqd issue: hunting the ksoftirqd issue has been the initial trigger for this work. I'm sorry for not being clear enough in the cover letter.

Quoted 7 lines

The napi thread patches offer additional benefits, i.e. an additional relevant gain in the described test scenario, and do not impact on other subsystems/kernel entities.

I still think they are worthy, and I bet you would disagree, but could you please articulate more which parts concern you most and/or are more bloated ?

Just look at the added code. napi_threaded_poll() is very buggy, but honestly I do not want to fix the bugs you added there. If you have only one vcpu, how jiffies can ever change since you block BH ?

I was planning to remove cond_resched_softirq() that we no longer use after my recent changes to TCP stack,
and you call it again (while it is obviously buggy since it does not check if a BH is pending, only if a thread needs the cpu)

I prefer fixing the existing code, really. It took us years to understand it and maybe fix it.

Just think of what will happen if you have 10 devices (10 new threads in your model) and one cpu.

Instead of the nice existing netif_rx() doing 64 packets per device rounds, you'll now rely on process scheduler behavior that has no such granularity.

Adding more threads is the natural answer of userland programmers, but in the kernel it is not the right answer. We already have mechanism, just use them and fix them if they are broken.

Sorry, I really do not think your patches are the way to go. But this thread is definitely interesting.

#41 lore raw

Hi all,

Quoted 37 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 23 lines · Paolo Abeni

Hi Eric,

Quoted 12 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 6 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

Not only did we want to present this solely as a bugfix but also as as performance enhancements in case of virtio (as you can see in the cover letter). Given that a long time ago there was a tendency to remove softirqs completely, we thought it might be very interesting, that a threaded napi in general seems to be absolutely viable nowadays and might offer new features.

Well, you did not fix the bug, you worked around by adding yet another layer, with another sysctl that admins or programs have to manage.

Quoted 6 lines

If you have a special need for virtio, do not hide it behind a 'bug fix' but add it as a features request.

This ksoftirqd issue is real and a fix looks very reasonable.

Please try this patch, as I had very good success with it.

Thank you for your time and your effort.

Quoted 9 lines

I tested your patch on the bare metal "single core" scenario, disabling the unneeded cores with:
CPUS=nproc
for I in seq 1 $CPUS; do echo 0 > /sys/devices/system/node/node0/cpu$I/online; done

And I got a:

[   86.925249] Broke affinity for irq <num>

Was it fatal, or simply a warning that you are removing the cpu that was the only allowed cpu in an affinity_mask ?

Quoted 8 lines

Looks another bug to fix then ? We disabled CPU hotplug here at Google for our production, as it was notoriously buggy. No time to fix dozens of issues added by a crowd of developers that do not even know a cpu can be unplugged.

Maybe some caller of local_bh_disable()/local_bh_enable() expected that current softirq would be processed. Obviously flaky even before the patches.

Yes, I fear this could come up. If we want to target net or stable maybe we should maybe special case this patch specifically for net-rx?

Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 7 lines

for each irq number generated by a network device.

In this scenario, your patch solves the ksoftirqd issue, performing comparable to the napi threaded patches (with a negative delta in the noise range) and introducing a minor regression with a single flow, in the noise range (3%).

Quoted 6 lines
Quoted 2 lines

As said in a previous mail, we actually experimented something similar, but it felt quite hackish.

Right, we are networking guys, and we feel that messing with such core infra is not for us. So we feel comfortable adding a pure networking patch.

We posted this patch as an RFC. My initial internal proposal only had a check in ___napi_schedule and completely relied on threaded irqs and didn't spawn a thread per napi instance in the networking stack. I think this is the better approach long term, as it allows to configure threaded irqs per device and doesn't specifically deal with networking only. NAPI must be aware of when to schedule, obviously, so we need another check in napi_schedule.

My plan was definitely to go with something more generic, but we didn't yet know how to express that in a generic way, but relied on the forced threaded irqs kernel parameter.

Quoted 4 lines
Quoted 2 lines

AFAICS this patch adds three more tests in the fast path and affect all other softirq use case. I'm not sure how to check for regression there.

It is obvious to me that ksoftird mechanism is not working as intended.

Yes.

Quoted 8 lines

Fixing it might uncover bugs from parts of the kernel relying on the bug, indirectly or directly. Is it a good thing ?

I can not tell before trying.

Just by looking at /proc/{ksoftirqs_pid}/sched you can see the problem, as we normally schedule ksoftird under stress but most of the time, the softirq items were processed by another tasks as you found out.

Exactly, the pending mask gets reset by the task handling the softirq inline and ksoftirqd runs dry too early not processing any more softirq notifications.

Quoted 9 lines
Quoted 9 lines

The napi thread patches are actually a new feature, that also fixes the ksoftirqd issue: hunting the ksoftirqd issue has been the initial trigger for this work. I'm sorry for not being clear enough in the cover letter.

The napi thread patches offer additional benefits, i.e. an additional relevant gain in the described test scenario, and do not impact on other subsystems/kernel entities.

Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 3 lines

I still think they are worthy, and I bet you would disagree, but could you please articulate more which parts concern you most and/or are more bloated ?

Just look at the added code. napi_threaded_poll() is very buggy, but honestly I do not want to fix the bugs you added there. If you have only one vcpu, how jiffies can ever change since you block BH ?

I think the local_bh_disable/enable needs to be more fine granular, correct (inside the loop).

Quoted 4 lines

I was planning to remove cond_resched_softirq() that we no longer use after my recent changes to TCP stack,
and you call it again (while it is obviously buggy since it does not check if a BH is pending, only if a thread needs the cpu)

Good point, thanks!

Quoted 2 lines

I prefer fixing the existing code, really. It took us years to understand it and maybe fix it.

I agree, we should find a simple way to let ksoftirqd and netrx behave better and target threaded napi as a new feature.

Quoted 6 lines

Just think of what will happen if you have 10 devices (10 new threads in your model) and one cpu.

Instead of the nice existing netif_rx() doing 64 packets per device rounds, you'll now rely on process scheduler behavior that has no such granularity.

We didn't inspect all kinds of workloads right now but I hoped to see benefits in forwarding with multiple interfaces. This is also why we want to have some "easy" way to configure that for admins. Also integration with RPS is on the todo list.

Quoted 6 lines

Adding more threads is the natural answer of userland programmers, but in the kernel it is not the right answer. We already have mechanism, just use them and fix them if they are broken.

Sorry, I really do not think your patches are the way to go. But this thread is definitely interesting.

I am fine with that. It is us to show clear benefits or use cases for that. If we fail with that, no problem at all that the patches get rejected, we don't want to add bloat to the kernel, for sure! At this point I still think a possibility to run napi in kthreads will allow specific workloads to see an improvement. Maybe the simple branch in napi_schedule is just worth so people can play around with it. As it shouldn't change behavior we can later on simply remove it.

Thanks,
Hannes

#42 lore raw
Quoted 7 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

I am fine with that. It is us to show clear benefits or use cases for that. If we fail with that, no problem at all that the patches get rejected, we don't want to add bloat to the kernel, for sure! At this point I still think a possibility to run napi in kthreads will allow specific workloads to see an improvement. Maybe the simple branch in napi_schedule is just worth so people can play around with it. As it shouldn't change behavior we can later on simply remove it.

Actually, I consider it a bug that when we force the kernel to use threaded irqs that we only schedule the softirq for napi later on and don't do the processing within the thread.

Bye,
Hannes

author maintainer
#43 lore raw
In reply to Eric Dumazet
Quoted 29 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 28 lines · Paolo Abeni

Hi Eric,

Quoted 12 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 6 lines · Hannes Frederic Sowa

Not only did we want to present this solely as a bugfix but also as as performance enhancements in case of virtio (as you can see in the cover letter). Given that a long time ago there was a tendency to remove softirqs completely, we thought it might be very interesting, that a threaded napi in general seems to be absolutely viable nowadays and might offer new features.

Well, you did not fix the bug, you worked around by adding yet another layer, with another sysctl that admins or programs have to manage.

Quoted 6 lines

If you have a special need for virtio, do not hide it behind a 'bug fix' but add it as a features request.

This ksoftirqd issue is real and a fix looks very reasonable.

Please try this patch, as I had very good success with it.

Thank you for your time and your effort.

I tested your patch on the bare metal "single core" scenario, disabling the unneeded cores with:
CPUS=nproc
for I in seq 1 $CPUS; do echo 0 > /sys/devices/system/node/node0/cpu$I/online; done

Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 4 lines

And I got a:

[   86.925249] Broke affinity for irq <num>

Was it fatal, or simply a warning that you are removing the cpu that was the only allowed cpu in an affinity_mask ?

The above message is emitted with pr_notice() by the x86 version of fixup_irqs(). It's not fatal, the host is alive and well after that. The un-patched kernel does not emit it on cpus disabling.

I'll try to look into this later.

Quoted 49 lines

Looks another bug to fix then ? We disabled CPU hotplug here at Google for our production, as it was notoriously buggy. No time to fix dozens of issues added by a crowd of developers that do not even know a cpu can be unplugged.

Maybe some caller of local_bh_disable()/local_bh_enable() expected that current softirq would be processed. Obviously flaky even before the patches.

Quoted 9 lines

for each irq number generated by a network device.

In this scenario, your patch solves the ksoftirqd issue, performing comparable to the napi threaded patches (with a negative delta in the noise range) and introducing a minor regression with a single flow, in the noise range (3%).

As said in a previous mail, we actually experimented something similar, but it felt quite hackish.

Right, we are networking guys, and we feel that messing with such core infra is not for us. So we feel comfortable adding a pure networking patch.

Quoted 3 lines

AFAICS this patch adds three more tests in the fast path and affect all other softirq use case. I'm not sure how to check for regression there.

It is obvious to me that ksoftird mechanism is not working as intended.

Fixing it might uncover bugs from parts of the kernel relying on the bug, indirectly or directly. Is it a good thing ?

I can not tell before trying.

Just by looking at /proc/{ksoftirqs_pid}/sched you can see the problem, as we normally schedule ksoftird under stress but most of the time, the softirq items were processed by another tasks as you found out.

Quoted 10 lines

The napi thread patches are actually a new feature, that also fixes the ksoftirqd issue: hunting the ksoftirqd issue has been the initial trigger for this work. I'm sorry for not being clear enough in the cover letter.

The napi thread patches offer additional benefits, i.e. an additional relevant gain in the described test scenario, and do not impact on other subsystems/kernel entities.

Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 3 lines

I still think they are worthy, and I bet you would disagree, but could you please articulate more which parts concern you most and/or are more bloated ?

Just look at the added code. napi_threaded_poll() is very buggy, but honestly I do not want to fix the bugs you added there. If you have only one vcpu, how jiffies can ever change since you block BH ?

Uh, we have likely the same issue in the net_rx_action() function, which also execute with bh disabled and check for jiffies changes even on single core hosts ?!?

Aren't jiffies updated by the timer interrupt ? and thous even with bh_disabled ?!?

Quoted 4 lines

I was planning to remove cond_resched_softirq() that we no longer use after my recent changes to TCP stack,
and you call it again (while it is obviously buggy since it does not check if a BH is pending, only if a thread needs the cpu)

I missed that, thank you for pointing out.

Quoted 10 lines

I prefer fixing the existing code, really. It took us years to understand it and maybe fix it.

Just think of what will happen if you have 10 devices (10 new threads in your model) and one cpu.

Instead of the nice existing netif_rx() doing 64 packets per device rounds, you'll now rely on process scheduler behavior that has no such granularity.

Quoted 6 lines

Adding more threads is the natural answer of userland programmers, but in the kernel it is not the right answer. We already have mechanism, just use them and fix them if they are broken.

Sorry, I really do not think your patches are the way to go. But this thread is definitely interesting.

Oh, this is a far better comment that I would have expected ;-)

Cheers,

Paolo

#44 lore raw
Quoted 3 lines · Paolo Abeni

Uh, we have likely the same issue in the net_rx_action() function, which also execute with bh disabled and check for jiffies changes even on single core hosts ?!?

That is why we have a loop break after netdev_budget=300 packets. And a sysctl to eventually tune this.

Same issue for softirq handler, look at commit
34376a50fb1fa095b9d0636fa41ed2e73125f214

Your questions about this central piece of networking code are worrying.

Quoted 3 lines

Aren't jiffies updated by the timer interrupt ? and thous even with bh_disabled ?!?

Exactly my point : jiffie wont be updated in your code, since you block BH.

#45 lore raw
Quoted 12 lines · Eric Dumazet
Quoted 3 lines · Paolo Abeni

Uh, we have likely the same issue in the net_rx_action() function, which also execute with bh disabled and check for jiffies changes even on single core hosts ?!?

That is why we have a loop break after netdev_budget=300 packets. And a sysctl to eventually tune this.

Same issue for softirq handler, look at commit
34376a50fb1fa095b9d0636fa41ed2e73125f214

Quoted 7 lines

Your questions about this central piece of networking code are worrying.

Quoted 3 lines

Aren't jiffies updated by the timer interrupt ? and thous even with bh_disabled ?!?

Exactly my point : jiffie wont be updated in your code, since you block BH.

To be fair, jiffies get updated in hardirq and not softirq context. The cond_resched_softirq not looking for pending softirqs is indeed a problem.

Thanks,
Hannes

#46 lore raw
In reply to Paolo Abeni

On Tue, 10 May 2016, Paolo Abeni wrote:

Nice patch set and very promising results!

Quoted 6 lines

At this point we are not really sure if we should go with this simpler approach by putting NAPI itself into kthreads or leverage the threadirqs function by putting the whole interrupt into a thread and signaling NAPI that it does not reschedule itself in a softirq but to simply run at this particular context of the interrupt handler.

Quoted 9 lines

While the threaded irq way seems to better integrate into the kernel and also other devices could move their interrupts into the threads easily on a common policy, we don't know how to really express the necessary knobs with the current device driver model (module parameters, sysfs attributes, etc.). This is where we would like to hear some opinions. NAPI would e.g. have to query the kernel if the particular IRQ/MSI if it should be scheduled in a softirq or in a thread, so we don't have to rewrite all device drivers. This might even be needed on a per rx-queue granularity.

Utilizing threaded irqs should be halfways simple even without touching the device driver at all.

We can do the switch to threading in two ways:

1) Let the driver request the interrupt(s) as it does now and then have a /proc/irq/NNN/threaded file which converts it to a threaded interrupt on the fly. That should be fairly trivial.

2) Let the driver request the interrupt(s) as it does now and retrieve the interrupt number which belongs to the device/queue from the network core and let the irq core switch it over to threaded.

So the interrupt flow of the device would be:

interrupt
IRQ_WAKE_THREAD

irq thread()

{ 
    local_bh_disable();
    action->thread_fn(action->irq, action->dev_id); <-- driver handler
    irq_finalize_oneshot(desc, action);
    local_bh_enable();
}

The driver irq handler calls napi_schedule(). So if your napi_struct is flagged POLL_IRQ_THREAD then you can call your polling machinery from there instead of raising the softirq.

You surely need some way to figure out whether the interrupt is threaded when you set up the device in order to flag your napi struct, but that should be not too hard to achieve.

Thanks,

tglx

author maintainer
#47 lore raw
Quoted 25 lines · Thomas Gleixner

On Tue, 10 May 2016, Paolo Abeni wrote:

Nice patch set and very promising results!

Quoted 6 lines

At this point we are not really sure if we should go with this simpler approach by putting NAPI itself into kthreads or leverage the threadirqs function by putting the whole interrupt into a thread and signaling NAPI that it does not reschedule itself in a softirq but to simply run at this particular context of the interrupt handler.

Quoted 9 lines

While the threaded irq way seems to better integrate into the kernel and also other devices could move their interrupts into the threads easily on a common policy, we don't know how to really express the necessary knobs with the current device driver model (module parameters, sysfs attributes, etc.). This is where we would like to hear some opinions. NAPI would e.g. have to query the kernel if the particular IRQ/MSI if it should be scheduled in a softirq or in a thread, so we don't have to rewrite all device drivers. This might even be needed on a per rx-queue granularity.

Utilizing threaded irqs should be halfways simple even without touching the device driver at all.

We can do the switch to threading in two ways:

Quoted 7 lines

1) Let the driver request the interrupt(s) as it does now and then have a /proc/irq/NNN/threaded file which converts it to a threaded interrupt on the fly. That should be fairly trivial.

2) Let the driver request the interrupt(s) as it does now and retrieve the interrupt number which belongs to the device/queue from the network core and let the irq core switch it over to threaded.

Thank you for the feedback.

We actually experimented something similar to (2). In our implementation we needed a per device chunk of code to do the actual irq number -> queue mapping (and than we performed as well the switch in the device code).

Quoted 3 lines

You surely need some way to figure out whether the interrupt is threaded when you set up the device in order to flag your napi struct, but that should be not too hard to achieve.

This is the part that required per device changes and complicated a bit the implementation. We can research further to simplify it, according to the overall discussion.

Cheers,

Paolo