Bounce from [email protected]
A message that is not in the archive (sent off-list or not yet received): [email protected]
Hello Andre,
I already said you that my replies get not accepted by your email agents.
If you want to post to an open list then you want to accept messages from people subscribed to that list. Doing different is just impoliteness.
Gérard.
Quoted 6 lines · Mail Delivery Service
- These recipients of your message have been processed by the mail server:
[email protected]; Action: Failed; Status: 5.3.0 (other or undefined mail system status)
Remote MTA mail.linuxdiskcert.org: network error- SMTP protocol diagnostic: 550 <[email protected]>... We don't accept mail from spammers
Quoted 20 lines · Gérard Roudier
Hello Andre,
I already said you that my replies get not accepted by your email agents.
If you want to post to an open list then you want to accept messages from people subscribed to that list. Doing different is just impoliteness.
Gérard.
Quoted 7 lines · Mail Delivery Service
- These recipients of your message have been processed by the mail server:
[email protected]; Action: Failed; Status: 5.3.0 (other or undefined mail system status)
Remote MTA mail.linuxdiskcert.org: network error- SMTP protocol diagnostic: 550 <[email protected]>... We don't accept mail from spammers
I'm not sure we are specific targets: I have an "@free.fr" mail address too and using it gives me the same 550. Using a secondary mail address was ok. The whole "free.fr" domain might simply be rejected.
I don't know the reality behind this as I didn't get any reply from Andre (still battling with sis5513.c and my SIS735 to make them work together if anyone cares).
Lionel.
PS : In fact Daniela Engert cares and I thank her again for her time, but I don't expect anybody to be available 24/24, 7/7 for ugly code analysis (look at current sis5513.c) especially in these holyday times.
Quoted 8 lines · Gérard Roudier
Hello Andre,
I already said you that my replies get not accepted by your email agents.
If you want to post to an open list then you want to accept messages from people subscribed to that list. Doing different is just impoliteness.
Andre isn't the only one that does this. It seems many people enjoy blocking people with access to only one smtp server. Esspecialy when that server is on a very small, isolated ISP, or an ISP that people just ASSUME is up to bad things.
David Weinehall sent me a private email recently, to which I responded, but didn't go through because, oh wonder of wonders, the pocketinet smtp server is listed on A spam list, and an apparent alias, white.pocketinet.com, is on two.
Now, aren't all these spam lists supposed to try and CONTACT the providers to get the issue resolved before blacklisting them? I know for a fact that if someone had actually contacted pocketinet about the problem customer that sent spam, they would have taken care of it promptly. It's a very small ISP in a remote area of Washington State, and it's run by friendly and competent people.
Quoted 21 lines · Nicholas Knight
Quoted 8 lines · Gérard Roudier
Hello Andre,
I already said you that my replies get not accepted by your email agents.
If you want to post to an open list then you want to accept messages from people subscribed to that list. Doing different is just impoliteness.
Andre isn't the only one that does this. It seems many people enjoy blocking people with access to only one smtp server. Esspecialy when that server is on a very small, isolated ISP, or an ISP that people just ASSUME is up to bad things.
David Weinehall sent me a private email recently, to which I responded, but didn't go through because, oh wonder of wonders, the pocketinet smtp server is listed on A spam list, and an apparent alias, white.pocketinet.com, is on two.
Quoted 6 lines
Now, aren't all these spam lists supposed to try and CONTACT the providers to get the issue resolved before blacklisting them? I know for a fact that if someone had actually contacted pocketinet about the problem customer that sent spam, they would have taken care of it promptly. It's a very small ISP in a remote area of Washington State, and it's run by friendly and competent people.
I just tried the following email address:
[email protected] writing to [email protected] -> spammer
[email protected] writing to [email protected] -> spammer
[email protected] writing to [email protected] -> accepted
So, it may look that 'free.fr' is in some spam list.
Thanks for the reply,
Gérard.
Quoted 8 lines · Gérard Roudier
Quoted 4 lines
Hello Andre,
I already said you that my replies get not accepted by your email agents.
[...]
Now, aren't all these spam lists supposed to try and CONTACT the providers to get the issue resolved before blacklisting them?
Nope. My personal experience with these orbses is: f*ck them. A good lot of them are _not_ contacting blacklisted ISPs. But on the other hand, some at least allow fast _unlisting_.
I give you the simple and well-thought hint _not_ to use a mail configuration relying on _external_ databases whatsoever. I mean why do you trust somebody you have never met or seen or maybe even talked to to _filter_ your email traffic. This is obviously most ridiculous and has _nothing_ to do with security.
I mean just sit down and think it over for a minute...
Regards,
Stephan
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Hello Andre,
I already said you that my replies get not accepted by your email agents.[...]
On Sunday 30 December 2001 03:33 am, Gérard Roudier wrote:
Now, aren't all these spam lists supposed to try and CONTACT the providers to get the issue resolved before blacklisting them?
Quoted 9 lines · Stephan von Krawczynski
Nope. My personal experience with these orbses is: f*ck them. A good lot of them are _not_ contacting blacklisted ISPs. But on the other hand, some at least allow fast _unlisting_.
I give you the simple and well-thought hint _not_ to use a mail configuration relying on _external_ databases whatsoever. I mean why do you trust somebody you have never met or seen or maybe even talked to to _filter_ your email traffic. This is obviously most ridiculous and has _nothing_ to do with security.
I mean just sit down and think it over for a minute...
Would you like to be cc'ed on my spam folder? 50 to 100 spams a day? Try being a member of the internet since the darpanet days and having 1400 domains with your email address.
Not an easy task. At least in my country and specifically the internet people are free to interact with others in the way they find best.
Some people have spam filters, some don't.
Signature · 3 lines
Brian Litzinger <[email protected]> Copyright (c) 2001 By Brian Litzinger, All Rights Reserved
Quoted 11 lines · On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:38:17 -0800 [email protected] wrote:
Quoted 5 lines · Stephan von Krawczynski
Nope. My personal experience with these orbses is: f*ck them. A good lot of them are _not_ contacting blacklisted ISPs. But on the other hand, some at least allow fast _unlisting_.
I give you the simple and well-thought hint _not_ to use a mail configuration relying on _external_ databases whatsoever.[...]
Would you like to be cc'ed on my spam folder? 50 to 100 spams a day? Try being a member of the internet since the darpanet days and having 1400 domains with your email address.
Two notes on that:
1) Please re-read my mail. I wrote "_external_ databases". I did not tell you to _not_ filter _yourself_. 2) We are just on the brink of the "communication century". Even if you don't like it, direct communication between people grows immensly, whereas broadcasting the same information to many people is stepping back. The reason is simple: people are beginning to dislike filtered (read censored) information quite a bit, they have simply been told lies too often. SPAM is of nature broadcasted information, but anyway you would probably not mind getting the complete same info as a mail _only_ addressed to you. Still you would choose to delete it, because it may be of no special interest for you, but you would most certainly not get that angry about it. What I basically want to say: just live with it. I personally decided so, because I can very well see the good point: no need to rely on censored (may be for political or economical reasons) (tv-)broadcasted information about the world out there. Today you can just talk to a lot of people around the world _personally_.
Quoted 3 lines
Not an easy task. At least in my country and specifically the internet people are free to interact with others in the way they find best.
Well, I think this is good, you don't?
Quoted 1 line
Some people have spam filters, some don't.
In the end it's all a matter of who to trust more: yourself or others.
Just to give you a small glimpse: I get several hundred mails a day, my top day in 2001 reached 832. Interestingly spam is no more than about 5%, and I use _no_ filter at all (besides my brain :-).
And to end it: I don't want to have _any_ worldcontrol ;-)
Regards,
Stephan
PS: If you want to go ahead in this talk, please keep it off LKML, it doesn't look like common interest to me.
Quoted 5 lines · Stephan von Krawczynski
Quoted 2 lines · On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 01:38:17 -0800 [email protected] wrote:
[...]
Would you like to be cc'ed on my spam folder? 50 to 100 spams a day?
[snip]
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Some people have spam filters, some don't.
In the end it's all a matter of who to trust more: yourself or others.
It's my mailbox, I'll filter it the way I want it filtered.
Quoted 1 line
And to end it: I don't want to have _any_ worldcontrol ;-)
So why are you telling us how to (not) filter our email ? ;)
regards,
Rik
Signature · 3 lines
Shortwave goes a long way: irc.starchat.net #swl http://www.surriel.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/
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Quoted 8 lines · Stephan von Krawczynski
Quoted 5 lines
Nope. My personal experience with these orbses is: f*ck them. A good lot of them are _not_ contacting blacklisted ISPs. But on the other hand, some at least allow fast _unlisting_.
I give you the simple and well-thought hint _not_ to use a mail configuration relying on _external_ databases whatsoever.[...]
Quoted 3 lines · [email protected] wrote:
Would you like to be cc'ed on my spam folder? 50 to 100 spams a day? Try being a member of the internet since the darpanet days and having 1400 domains with your email address.
Quoted 4 lines · Stephan von Krawczynski
Two notes on that:
1) Please re-read my mail. I wrote "_external_ databases". I did not tell you to _not_ filter _yourself_.
I use external databases.
Quoted 10 lines
2) We are just on the brink of the "communication century". Even if you don't like it, direct communication between people grows immensly, whereas broadcasting the same information to many people is stepping back. The reason is simple: people are beginning to dislike filtered (read censored) information quite a bit, they have simply been told lies too often. SPAM is of nature broadcasted information, but anyway you would probably not mind getting the complete same info as a mail _only_ addressed to you. Still you would choose to delete it, because it may be of no special interest for you, but you would most certainly not get that angry about it.
Trying to find interesting email among 'Hot Young Teen Girls', which is at least honest, and among the less forthright emails trying to masquarade as something else in order to get me to read them certainly makes me angry regardless of how they are addressed.
Quoted 1 line
What I basically want to say: just live with it.
Interesting philosophy. You are saying that anyone may speak at you and you have to at least read the subject line. I wonder what your corrollary for real life would be?
We are at absolutely opposite extremes.
Go see what my current company does:
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Not an easy task. At least in my country and specifically the internet people are free to interact with others in the way they find best.
Well, I think this is good, you don't?
I don't believe my statement implies that I don't.
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Quoted 1 line
Some people have spam filters, some don't.
In the end it's all a matter of who to trust more: yourself or others.
I find it a matter of time.
Quoted 3 lines
Just to give you a small glimpse: I get several hundred mails a day, my top day in 2001 reached 832. Interestingly spam is no more than about 5%, and I use _no_ filter at all (besides my brain :-).
I am glad for you.
Quoted 1 line
And to end it: I don't want to have _any_ worldcontrol ;-)
Worldcontrol is from the book 'Colossus: The Forbin Project'.
Quoted 4 lines
Regards, Stephan
PS: If you want to go ahead in this talk, please keep it off LKML, it doesn't look like common interest to me.
That has always been a tough issue for me. Your email, which was cc'ed to l-k, will go into the various archives and forever be "findable" via google groups and other archives. If I reply offline from histories perspective I will never have replied.
I have a particularly offensive and inflamatory piece addressed to Alan Cox in my postpone box, but its somewhat off-topic and since I was out sick for two weeks (in the hospital) I was really torn about restarting the off-topic discussion.
On the other hand, when looking at the archives it looks like I didn't respond to some criticisms, which in many people minds means they are valid.
Signature · 3 lines
Brian Litzinger <[email protected]> Copyright (c) 2001 By Brian Litzinger, All Rights Reserved
Quoted 4 lines · On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 17:58:17 -0800 [email protected] wrote:
Trying to find interesting email among 'Hot Young Teen Girls', which is at least honest, and among the less forthright emails trying to masquarade as something else in order to get me to read them certainly makes me angry regardless of how they are addressed.
Hm, this is of course getting very philosophical, but: you must have a very bad feeling in everyday life, if I take your words serious. How can you cope with the fact that basically _every_ ad ever published is a _lie_ to a certain extent. Does this make you angry, too? How can you life with that? Ads do nothing else but disguise the fact that something should be sold and make someone real rich. And most of the things sold are really ridiculous stuff nobody ever needs. Some is even harmful to people, and still they buy it (e.g. drugs). Emails are only a mirror of The Real Life (tm).
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What I basically want to say: just live with it.
Interesting philosophy. You are saying that anyone may speak at you and you have to at least read the subject line.
Yes, plain and simple: yes.
Quoted 2 lines
I wonder what your
corrollary for real life would be?
Hm, I am not quite sure if I get what you like to know, but how about:
_learning_ ??
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We are at absolutely opposite extremes.
Maybe, maybe not. I tend to think we are both on a road heading in a direction we both do not know, maybe we meet each other sometime, I can't tell. I guess your picture of the world is a bit too static currently. "Can you colorize my life I'm so sick of black and white?" (Jim Steinman, 1993)
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PS: If you want to go ahead in this talk, please keep it off LKML, it doesn't look like common interest to me.
That has always been a tough issue for me. Your email, which was cc'ed to l-k, will go into the various archives and forever be "findable" via google groups and other archives. If I reply offline from histories perspective I will never have replied.
This is an either interesting point of view. It looks like you live in a world where the real and absolute truth is still existing, neglecting the fact that so much knowledge has vanished from this planet and has partly been rediscovered by later generations. It is very easy to understand that all archives are by definition limited, and therefore the information inside can only be limited and never _complete_. So if you read some thread in google (or whereever) it is very likely you do not get the full picture, because some information (maybe even important) is simply hidden for various reasons. An answer not found in google does not mean it never existed. You have to keep that in mind, if you read the corresponding question there.
Quoted 4 lines
[...]
On the other hand, when looking at the archives it looks like I didn't respond to some criticisms, which in many people minds means they are valid.
Well, this cannot be your fault, you are not Jesus. And most likely even he did not answer every question to full extent, although I tend to think he tried hard to _listen_ to it.
:-)
Regards,
Stephan
Quoted 2 lines · Stephan von Krawczynski
SPAM is of nature broadcasted information, but anyway you would probably not mind getting the complete same info as a mail _only_ addressed to you. Still
Don't know about you, but I really don't need or want *any* information relating to Viagra, Teenage Incest and Horses or How To Secure My Windows Machine showing up in my mail box.
Signature · 1 line
Share and Enjoy.
Quoted 21 lines · Nicholas Knight
Quoted 8 lines · Gérard Roudier
Hello Andre,
I already said you that my replies get not accepted by your email agents.
If you want to post to an open list then you want to accept messages from people subscribed to that list. Doing different is just impoliteness.
Andre isn't the only one that does this. It seems many people enjoy blocking people with access to only one smtp server. Esspecialy when that server is on a very small, isolated ISP, or an ISP that people just ASSUME is up to bad things.
David Weinehall sent me a private email recently, to which I responded, but didn't go through because, oh wonder of wonders, the pocketinet smtp server is listed on A spam list, and an apparent alias, white.pocketinet.com, is on two.
Quoted 6 lines
Now, aren't all these spam lists supposed to try and CONTACT the providers to get the issue resolved before blacklisting them? I know for a fact that if someone had actually contacted pocketinet about the problem customer that sent spam, they would have taken care of it promptly. It's a very small ISP in a remote area of Washington State, and it's run by friendly and competent people.
Hmmm. I guess you could e-mail me through [email protected] instead.
/David
_ _
// David Weinehall <[email protected]> /> Northern lights wander \\
// Maintainer of the v2.0 kernel // Dance across the winter sky // \> http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/ </ Full colour fire </
Quoted 21 lines · David Weinehall
Quoted 20 lines · Nicholas Knight
Quoted 8 lines · Gérard Roudier
Hello Andre,
I already said you that my replies get not accepted by your email agents.
If you want to post to an open list then you want to accept messages from people subscribed to that list. Doing different is just impoliteness.
Andre isn't the only one that does this. It seems many people enjoy blocking people with access to only one smtp server. Esspecialy when that server is on a very small, isolated ISP, or an ISP that people just ASSUME is up to bad things.
David Weinehall sent me a private email recently, to which I responded, but didn't go through because, oh wonder of wonders, the pocketinet smtp server is listed on A spam list, and an apparent alias, white.pocketinet.com, is on two.
Quoted 6 lines
Quoted 6 lines
Now, aren't all these spam lists supposed to try and CONTACT the providers to get the issue resolved before blacklisting them? I know for a fact that if someone had actually contacted pocketinet about the problem customer that sent spam, they would have taken care of it promptly. It's a very small ISP in a remote area of Washington State, and it's run by friendly and competent people.
Unfortunately, no, that's not how they (the black-list maintainers) operate.
Speaking from experience, you get an email informing you that you're already on the blacklist. Note, also, that being on the blacklist doesn't imply that you're actually sending span or are being used to send spam, either. You can get black listed for allowing "open relaying", meaning that your sendmail will relay from outside to outside, basically. The impotus is on you, the administrator, to resolve the problem *and* prove to them that it's been solved. Mind you, this was several years ago, but I doubt that it's changed significantly.
It sure would be nice if they'd send you an email informing you that your site has an open relay, and if it's not corrected within, say, 1 week, you'll be put on the black list. These sites also obviously have tests for checking for open relays, also. The administrator of said site should be allowed access to these same tests to aid in diagnosing and solving the problem.
Sorry about the rant. I appreciate what the black-listers are trying to do, but I think that their method sucks.
-Nick
Quoted 6 lines · [email protected] said:
It sure would be nice if they'd send you an email informing you that
your site has an open relay, and if it's not corrected within, say, 1 week, you'll be put on the black list. These sites also obviously have tests for checking for open relays, also. The administrator of said site should be allowed access to these same tests to aid in diagnosing and solving the problem.
I don't understand your complaint - is there any particular stupidity you think your own mail server might be guilty of, for which you are not capable testing for yourself _before_ you get blacklisted? Or indeed for which any responsible admin wouldn't test automatically as part of the process of commissioning a new system?
Some blacklists do have a policy of warning the owners of offending sites before actually adding the site to the list, and postponing the addition for as long as the admin says that they're working on fixing the brokenness. This gets abused.
The list of offences for which you'll get blacklisted isn't very large. If you can't manage to set up a well-behaved system without external assistance, you shouldn't be running it in the first place.
--
dwmw2
Quoted 3 lines · David Woodhouse
Quoted 1 line · [email protected] said:
It sure would be nice if they'd send you an email informing you that
[SNIPPED]
Quoted 5 lines
The list of offences for which you'll get blacklisted isn't very large. If you can't manage to set up a well-behaved system without external assistance, you shouldn't be running it in the first place.
Do you mean that there are still helpful sites that forward email for free?? Humm, that's why the spammers pay all that money to the ".jp" and ".cz" sites? The rest of the world would be black- listed -no?
Cheers,
Dick Johnson
Penguin : Linux version 2.4.1 on an i686 machine (797.90 BogoMips).
I was going to compile a list of innovations that could be attributed to Microsoft. Once I realized that Ctrl-Alt-Del was handled in the BIOS, I found that there aren't any.