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Changing KB, MB, and GB to KiB, MiB, and GiB in Configure.help

DISCUSSION Nayyer Tiger 11 participants 15 messages Mar 18, 2002 – Mar 19, 2002

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#0 lore raw

Greetings all,

I see that in the very latest Configure.help version, 2.76, available at http:/www.tuxedo.org/~esr/cml2/
Eric has decided to follow the following standard:
IEC 60027-2, Second edition, 2000-11, Letter symbols to be used in electrical technology - Part 2: Telecommunications and electronics. and has changed all the abbreviations for Kilobyte (KB) to KiB, Megabyte (MB) to MiB, etc, etc.

Now, granted that this is the "standard", should there be some discussion related to this change, or is everyone comfortable with this? It certainly made me do a double take.

Here is a snippet from the diff between versions 2.75 and 2.76 of Configure.help:

@@ -344,8 +344,8 @@
If you are compiling a kernel which will never run on a machine with more than 960 megabytes of total physical RAM, answer "off" here (default choice and suitable for most users). This will result in a

-  "3GB/1GB" split: 3GB are mapped so that each process sees a 3GB
-  virtual memory space and the remaining part of the 4GB virtual memory
+  "3GiB/1GiB" split: 3GiB are mapped so that each process sees a 3GiB
+  virtual memory space and the remaining part of the 4GiB virtual memory

space is used by the kernel to permanently map as much physical memory as possible.

Steven
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#1 lore raw

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Nayyer Tiger wrote:

| I see that in the very latest Configure.help version, 2.76, available at
| http:/www.tuxedo.org/~esr/cml2/
| Eric has decided to follow the following standard:
| IEC 60027-2, Second edition, 2000-11, Letter symbols to be used in
| electrical technology - Part 2: Telecommunications and electronics.
| and has changed all the abbreviations for Kilobyte (KB) to KiB, Megabyte
| (MB) to MiB, etc, etc.
|
| Now, granted that this is the "standard", should there be some discussion
| related to this
| change, or is everyone comfortable with this?  It certainly made me do a
| double take.

Either decision will be disliked. I don't care for the new/standard abbreviations, but I can get used to them, and I expect that most people can.

Let's get over it and back to the good stuff.

~Randy

and who are all these anon. people you copied?!?

| Here is a snippet from the diff between versions 2.75 and 2.76 of
| Configure.help:
|
| @@ -344,8 +344,8 @@
|    If you are compiling a kernel which will never run on a machine with
|    more than 960 megabytes of total physical RAM, answer "off" here
|    (default choice and suitable for most users). This will result in a
| -  "3GB/1GB" split: 3GB are mapped so that each process sees a 3GB
| -  virtual memory space and the remaining part of the 4GB virtual memory
| +  "3GiB/1GiB" split: 3GiB are mapped so that each process sees a 3GiB
| +  virtual memory space and the remaining part of the 4GiB virtual memory
|    space is used by the kernel to permanently map as much physical memory
|    as possible.
#2 lore raw
Quoted 15 lines · Randy.Dunlap

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Nayyer Tiger wrote:

| I see that in the very latest Configure.help version, 2.76, available at
| http:/www.tuxedo.org/~esr/cml2/
| Eric has decided to follow the following standard:
| IEC 60027-2, Second edition, 2000-11, Letter symbols to be used in
| electrical technology - Part 2: Telecommunications and electronics.
| and has changed all the abbreviations for Kilobyte (KB) to KiB, Megabyte
| (MB) to MiB, etc, etc.
|
| Now, granted that this is the "standard", should there be some discussion
| related to this
| change, or is everyone comfortable with this?  It certainly made me do a
| double take.
Quoted 8 lines

Either decision will be disliked. I don't care for the new/standard abbreviations, but I can get used to them, and I expect that most people can.

Let's get over it and back to the good stuff.

~Randy

Is it a standard or is it something in-process? The reason I ask is that neither KB nor KiB can possibly be correct.

According to the standards, where capitalization is used:
(1) For a proper name.
(2) To differentiate between otherwise identical symbols.

"KB" would mean:

Kirchoff-Bell

It needs to be:

"kb" to mean kilobyte.

In any event, I suggest that whatever exists just be left alone. Both the present and the proposed changes are incorrect. The present incorrect symbols are widely used, therefore the intent is known. The proposed symbols are not widely used and will just aggravate a sore created by Tech-Writers who can't read or write.

We have seen, in recent years, a continual change in English Language usage where, what was once considered absolutely wrong, is now considered correct. For instance double-negatives like "irregardless" are now even codified by insertion into the dictionary. FYI, it is either "regardless" or "irrespective". It can't be "irregardless".

So, let's let sleeping dogs lie. Oh yes, contractions are now getting clobbered too. It is now acceptable to spell "dont" without the apostrophe! I think Alan had something to do with that.... ;)

Cheers,
Dick Johnson

Penguin : Linux version 2.4.18 on an i686 machine (797.90 BogoMips).

Windows-2000/Professional isn't.

#3 lore raw
Quoted 19 lines · Richard B. Johnson
Quoted 18 lines · Randy.Dunlap

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002, Nayyer Tiger wrote:

| I see that in the very latest Configure.help version, 2.76, available
| at http:/www.tuxedo.org/~esr/cml2/
| Eric has decided to follow the following standard:
| IEC 60027-2, Second edition, 2000-11, Letter symbols to be used in
| electrical technology - Part 2: Telecommunications and electronics.
| and has changed all the abbreviations for Kilobyte (KB) to KiB,
| Megabyte (MB) to MiB, etc, etc.
|
| Now, granted that this is the "standard", should there be some
| discussion related to this
| change, or is everyone comfortable with this?  It certainly made me do
| a double take.

Either decision will be disliked. I don't care for the new/standard abbreviations, but I can get used to them, and I expect that most people can.

Quoted 6 lines
Quoted 3 lines

Let's get over it and back to the good stuff.

~Randy

Is it a standard or is it something in-process? The reason I ask is that neither KB nor KiB can possibly be correct.

KiB is correct, please visit:
http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

There was a huge thread on this subject in dec '01. If anyone feels like bringing back this horse please at least read through that thread before we starting over again.

http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=linux.kernel.1008872772.2777.16.camel%40phantasy.SOMEWHERE&rnum=1

-- Jakob

#4 lore raw
In reply to Randy.Dunlap
Quoted 11 lines · Richard B. Johnson

According to the standards, where capitalization is used:
(1) For a proper name.
(2) To differentiate between otherwise identical symbols.

"KB" would mean:

Kirchoff-Bell

It needs to be:

"kb" to mean kilobyte.

Argh. Not this thread again. "kb" is kilo _bits_ not kilo _bytes_.

Cheers, Andreas
--
Andreas Dilger \ "If a man ate a pound of pasta and a pound of antipasto,
\ would they cancel out, leaving him still hungry?"
http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ -- Dogbert

#5 lore raw
In reply to Randy.Dunlap
Followup to:  <[email protected]>
By author:    "Richard B. Johnson" <[email protected]>
In newsgroup: linux.dev.kernel
Quoted 8 lines

Is it a standard or is it something in-process? The reason I ask is that neither KB nor KiB can possibly be correct.

According to the standards, where capitalization is used:
(1) For a proper name.
(2) To differentiate between otherwise identical symbols.

This is obviously untrue for prefixes. Consider the prefix T (10^12), which has no lower-case equivalent.

The unit here is B, which does conflict with the unit bel, but is widely used to mean byte in computer contexts.

I don't like the pronunciations used in the new standard, but I think using Ki, Mi, Gi, ... at least in writing is a good thing, to disambiguate between binary and decimal powers. I just read them as "binary kilobytes" etc if I need to be clear.

-hpa

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#6 lore raw
Quoted 2 lines · H. Peter Anvin

The unit here is B, which does conflict with the unit bel, but is widely used to mean byte in computer contexts.

Also, the kilobell is highly unlikely to be used ;)

Rik

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#7 lore raw
Quoted 6 lines · Rik van Riel
Quoted 2 lines

The unit here is B, which does conflict with the unit bel, but is widely used to mean byte in computer contexts.

Also, the kilobell is highly unlikely to be used ;)

Rik

Dunno about that, the S/N ratio on slashdot seems to get into the kB's somedays.

=)

mike

#8 lore raw
Quoted 11 lines · Mike Dresser
Quoted 6 lines · Rik van Riel
Quoted 2 lines

The unit here is B, which does conflict with the unit bel, but is widely used to mean byte in computer contexts.

Also, the kilobell is highly unlikely to be used ;)

Rik

Dunno about that, the S/N ratio on slashdot seems to get into the kB's somedays.

I'm not sure what parallel universe you live in, but I'm pretty damn sure that mine doesn't have 10000 times more signal than noise on slashdot ;)

An S+N/N of one kB is 40 dB...

regards,

Rik

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#9 lore raw
Quoted 11 lines · Rik van Riel
Quoted 2 lines · Mike Dresser

Dunno about that, the S/N ratio on slashdot seems to get into the kB's somedays.

I'm not sure what parallel universe you live in, but I'm pretty damn sure that mine doesn't have 10000 times more signal than noise on slashdot ;)

An S+N/N of one kB is 40 dB...

<pedantic>

dB is decibel, kB would be kilobel, so one kB is 10000 dB

a kilobel works out to a signal to noise ratio of 10^1000, which is pretty big, and definately a bit bigger than the slashdot signal to noise ratio :)

</pedantic>

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#10 lore raw
Quoted 9 lines

<pedantic>

dB is decibel, kB would be kilobel, so one kB is 10000 dB

a kilobel works out to a signal to noise ratio of 10^1000, which is pretty big, and definately a bit bigger than the slashdot signal to noise ratio :)

</pedantic>

<b><pedantic>
if dB is 10 bel's, wouldn't kB be 1000 bel's, therefore one kB is only 100 deci-bel's?

Creating a S/N ratio of 10^100?

</pedantic></b>

I forget what we were debating now.

mike

#11 lore raw
Quoted 7 lines · Mike Dresser

<b><pedantic>
if dB is 10 bel's, wouldn't kB be 1000 bel's, therefore one kB is only 100 deci-bel's?

Creating a S/N ratio of 10^100?

</pedantic></b>

No Mike, go back to school!

Deci, not deca!

<dummy>Mike</dummy>

#12 lore raw
In reply to Rik van Riel
Quoted 17 lines · Mike Dresser
Quoted 11 lines · Rik van Riel
Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 3 lines

The unit here is B, which does conflict with the unit bel, but is widely used to mean byte in computer contexts.

Also, the kilobell is highly unlikely to be used ;)

Rik

Dunno about that, the S/N ratio on slashdot seems to get into the kB's somedays.

I'm not sure what parallel universe you live in, but I'm pretty damn sure that mine doesn't have 10000 times more signal than noise on slashdot ;)

Quoted 6 lines

An S+N/N of one kB is 40 dB...

regards,

Rik

changing the d to a k doesn't do anything for the behaviour Bell scale, it's just scaling... :) so 1 kB = 10000 dB...

Signature · 10 lines
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#13 lore raw

Re: Changing KB, MB, and GB to KiB, MiB, and GiB inConfigure.help

In reply to Rik van Riel
Quoted 8 lines · Pete Cervasio
Quoted 3 lines · Mike Dresser

Dunno about that, the S/N ratio on slashdot seems to get into the kB's somedays.

Your threshold is set too high. Read at -1 for megabels. ;)

I think you really mean microbels..... :)

Signature · 4 lines
Chris Friesen                    | MailStop: 043/33/F10  
Nortel Networks                  | work: (613) 765-0557
3500 Carling Avenue              | fax:  (613) 765-2986
Nepean, ON K2H 8E9 Canada        | email: [email protected]
#14 lore raw
In reply to Nayyer Tiger
Quoted 29 lines · Nayyer Tiger

Greetings all,

I see that in the very latest Configure.help version, 2.76, available at http:/www.tuxedo.org/~esr/cml2/
Eric has decided to follow the following standard:
IEC 60027-2, Second edition, 2000-11, Letter symbols to be used in electrical technology - Part 2: Telecommunications and electronics. and has changed all the abbreviations for Kilobyte (KB) to KiB, Megabyte (MB) to MiB, etc, etc.

Now, granted that this is the "standard", should there be some discussion related to this
change, or is everyone comfortable with this? It certainly made me do a double take.

Here is a snippet from the diff between versions 2.75 and 2.76 of Configure.help:

(quoted diff) +2 -2
@@ -344,8 +344,8 @@
   If you are compiling a kernel which will never run on a machine with
   more than 960 megabytes of total physical RAM, answer "off" here
   (default choice and suitable for most users). This will result in a
-  "3GB/1GB" split: 3GB are mapped so that each process sees a 3GB
-  virtual memory space and the remaining part of the 4GB virtual memory
+  "3GiB/1GiB" split: 3GiB are mapped so that each process sees a 3GiB
+  virtual memory space and the remaining part of the 4GiB virtual memory
   space is used by the kernel to permanently map as much physical memory
   as possible.
 
Quoted 1 line

Steven

Hey team,

This is the message I posted just before Christmas last year. The following thread was quite long and many good arguments were posted pro and con. ESR decided to keep the KiB and MiB in Configure.help after all was said and done, but then Linus split up an older version (v2.69 IIRC) which did not have these changes, performing a "pocket veto" of the MB to MiB conversion. Marcello did not accept any changes from ESR after v2.69 also, so that whole discussion was made rather moot.

So rather than beating up on this horse which was already buried last year, I suggest spending time more productively.

Steven