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How to start on new db-based FS?

DISCUSSION Johnny Q. Hacker 6 participants 10 messages Jul 26, 2002 – Jul 28, 2002

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#0 lore raw

Hello.

I'm looking to start work in the next half-year to year on a filesystem
with LDAP and then maybe later someSQL backing. Where's a good place to start? I'm going to have a look at NFS, because I think I might be able to use its interface into the kernel (I'm planning on making it a userspace daemon). Maybe autofs, although I think that's a different interface.
Any recommendations on what I should read before delving in? Books,
articles, web sites, code bases are all fair game.
Thanks!

-Joseph

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#1 lore raw
Quoted 7 lines · Johnny Q. Hacker

I'm looking to start work in the next half-year to year on a filesystem
with LDAP and then maybe later someSQL backing. Where's a good place to start? I'm going to have a look at NFS, because I think I might be able to use its interface into the kernel (I'm planning on making it a userspace daemon). Maybe autofs, although I think that's a different interface.

Just a pointer to a project on filesystems that seems "revolutionary" in concepts and objectives: ReiserFS 4 (http://www.namesys.com).

Please don't ask me about details, because I don't know a thing about filesystem design and such :-), but documentation at the above site can give you some ideas, and maybe a place to start contributing.

Regards,

Signature · 2 lines
Jose Luis Domingo Lopez
Linux Registered User #189436     Debian Linux Woody (Linux 2.4.19-pre6aa1)
#2 lore raw
Quoted 14 lines · Jose Luis Domingo Lopez
Quoted 9 lines · Johnny Q. Hacker

I'm looking to start work in the next half-year to year on a filesystem
with LDAP and then maybe later someSQL backing. Where's a good place to start? I'm going to have a look at NFS, because I think I might be able to use its interface into the kernel (I'm planning on making it a userspace daemon). Maybe autofs, although I think that's a different interface.

Quoted 10 lines

Just a pointer to a project on filesystems that seems "revolutionary" in concepts and objectives: ReiserFS 4 (http://www.namesys.com).

Please don't ask me about details, because I don't know a thing about
filesystem design and such :-), but documentation at the above site can give you some ideas, and maybe a place to start contributing.

Regards,

We would be happy to cooperate with persons interested in implementing LDAP optimizing plugins for reiser4.

Probably you can get decent results compared to the competition even without writing additional plugins.

Signature · 1 line
Hans
#3 lore raw
Quoted 2 lines · Hans Reiser

We would be happy to cooperate with persons interested in implementing LDAP optimizing plugins for reiser4.

I'm doing a scan on the web for disk storage layout documentation on different file systems. I have I think, downloaded just about all there is to download on www.namesys.com, but I fail to find anything that does describe the reiserfs storage layout in any detail. Is there such documentation available?
I would be very happy for directions to it in this case.

Reason? I want to know if the root file system that I my self is about to develop perhaps is already implemented to some extent in any existing root FS:s ? No need to re-invent the wheel. =)

I now know for sure that neither the JFS or the XFS does work in the same ways as my drafts from reading their on disk storage scheemes.

kind regards
Daniel Mose.

#4 lore raw
Quoted 7 lines · Daniel Mose
Quoted 3 lines · Hans Reiser

We would be happy to cooperate with persons interested in implementing LDAP optimizing plugins for reiser4.

Quoted 8 lines

I'm doing a scan on the web for disk storage layout documentation on
different file systems. I have I think, downloaded just about all there is to download on www.namesys.com, but I fail to find anything that does describe the reiserfs storage layout in any detail.
Is there such documentation available? I would be very happy for directions to it in this case.

Reason? I want to know if the root file system that I my self is about to develop perhaps is already implemented to some extent in any existing root FS:s ?

What is a root filesystem? (I am accustomed to the term as describing what the OS uses for storing the semantic layer's root directory).

Quoted 10 lines

No need to re-invent the wheel. =)

I now know for sure that neither the JFS or the XFS does work in the same ways as my drafts from reading their on disk storage scheemes.

kind regards
Daniel Mose.

Signature · 1 line
Hans
#5 lore raw

Hans,

I think Daniel is referring to filesystems in general, when he uses "root"

Matthew
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Reiser" <[email protected]>
To: "Daniel Mose" <[email protected]>
Cc: "Jose Luis Domingo Lopez" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: How to start on new db-based FS?

Quoted 48 lines
Quoted 15 lines · Daniel Mose
Quoted 4 lines · Hans Reiser

We would be happy to cooperate with persons interested in implementing LDAP optimizing plugins for reiser4.

I'm doing a scan on the web for disk storage layout documentation on different file systems. I have I think, downloaded just about all there is to download on www.namesys.com, but I fail to find anything that does describe the reiserfs storage layout in any detail. Is there such documentation available?
I would be very happy for directions to it in this case.

Quoted 4 lines

Reason? I want to know if the root file system that I my self is about to develop perhaps is already implemented to some extent in any existing root FS:s ?

What is a root filesystem? (I am accustomed to the term as describing what the OS uses for storing the semantic layer's root directory).

Quoted 11 lines

No need to re-invent the wheel. =)

I now know for sure that neither the JFS or the XFS does work in the same ways as my drafts from reading their on disk storage scheemes.

kind regards
Daniel Mose.

--
Hans

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#6 lore raw
Quoted 5 lines · Matthew D. Pitts

Hans,

I think Daniel is referring to filesystems in general, when he uses "root"

Matthew

Well, I think that this would depend on what
you refer to with "file systems" in general ;)

kind regards
Daniel Mose

#7 lore raw
In reply to Hans Reiser
Quoted 6 lines · Hans Reiser
Quoted 5 lines · Daniel Mose

I'm doing a scan on the web for disk storage layout documentation on different file systems. I have I think, downloaded just about all there is to download on www.namesys.com, but I fail to find anything that does describe the reiserfs storage layout in any detail. Is there such documentation available?

I do believe that I've been somewhat unclear. What I would hope to find is :
Documentation of On-disk Per-partition storage layout of file lookup and maintainance structures for reiserfs.

Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 3 lines

I would be very happy for directions to it in this case.

Reason? I want to know if the root file system that I my self is

                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Correction, Should be: File system for root mountable partitions.

Quoted 2 lines
Quoted 2 lines

about to develop perhaps is already implemented to some extent in any existing root FS:s ?

                ^^^^^^^^^ 

same correction here.

Quoted 3 lines

What is a root filesystem? (I am accustomed to the term as describing what the OS uses for storing the semantic layer's root directory).

I do not have a CS - convention, or Unix background, so I am a bit unfamiliar with terms like "semantic layer's root directory" I am a "learn by doing" type of guy, and up to now it has worked out ok.

There seems to be a lot of discrepancies when it comes to defining what a "file system" really is. I often find that the term is used with widely different meanings, depending on who you are actually talking to, and also in what context it is used.

I believe that the developers at www.oss.sgi, as well as the JFS developers hosted at IBM, use the term: "root file system" to make clear that

A. It is a Unix type of file system, that can be used as "/"
at boot, i e a system "magically" mountable root partition.

B. The file system occupies a Local mountable disk partition,
and is acessible via the Unix mount command.

C. The file system is used for file access, and maintainance of
On-disk file-lookup hierarchies, such as one or more
Superblocks, File allocation scheemes ( f ex allocation group descriptors,block and inode bitmap tables, as well as inodes ) and Directory files ( ext2fs or FFS )

I hope that this makes a bit more sense to you.
Thank you for taking time with me, all the same

I'm happy for any further direction.

kind regards
Daniel Mose

#8 lore raw
Quoted 60 lines · Daniel Mose
Quoted 9 lines · Hans Reiser
Quoted 6 lines · Daniel Mose

I'm doing a scan on the web for disk storage layout documentation on
different file systems. I have I think, downloaded just about all there is to download on www.namesys.com, but I fail to find anything that does describe the reiserfs storage layout in any detail.
Is there such documentation available?

I do believe that I've been somewhat unclear. What I would hope to find is :
Documentation of On-disk Per-partition storage layout of file lookup and maintainance structures for reiserfs.

Quoted 5 lines
Quoted 5 lines

I would be very happy for directions to it in this case.

Reason? I want to know if the root file system that I my self is

                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Correction, Should be: File system for root mountable partitions.

Quoted 4 lines
Quoted 4 lines

about to develop perhaps is already implemented to some extent in any existing root FS:s ?

               ^^^^^^^^^ 

same correction here.

Quoted 3 lines

What is a root filesystem? (I am accustomed to the term as describing what the OS uses for storing the semantic layer's root directory).

I do not have a CS - convention, or Unix background, so I am a bit
unfamiliar with terms like "semantic layer's root directory" I am a "learn by doing" type of guy, and up to now it has worked out ok.

There seems to be a lot of discrepancies when it comes to defining what a "file system" really is. I often find that the term is used with widely different meanings, depending on who you are actually talking to, and also in what context it is used.

I believe that the developers at www.oss.sgi, as well as the JFS developers hosted at IBM, use the term: "root file system" to make clear that

A. It is a Unix type of file system, that can be used as "/"
at boot, i e a system "magically" mountable root partition.

B. The file system occupies a Local mountable disk partition,
and is acessible via the Unix mount command.

C. The file system is used for file access, and maintainance of
On-disk file-lookup hierarchies, such as one or more
Superblocks, File allocation scheemes ( f ex allocation group descriptors,block and inode bitmap tables, as well as inodes ) and Directory files ( ext2fs or FFS )

Quoted 10 lines

I hope that this makes a bit more sense to you.
Thank you for taking time with me, all the same

I'm happy for any further direction.

kind regards Daniel Mose

We are gradually adding this to our web page, and what is not present there can be found by reading the source code which is quite readable for reiser4. Look in the node plugin, disk format plugin, and item plugin files/directories. These have some very long winded comments which are not yet on our web page.;-) [email protected] will send you a tarball of the source code if you ask for it.

Signature · 1 line
Hans
#9 lore raw
In reply to Johnny Q. Hacker

There's always the possibility to build upon AVFS (http://www.inf.bme.hu/~mszeredi/avfs), either using the LD_PRELOAD version improved by Frederik Eaton, or the version using the (CODA or better the) FUSE kernel module (the latter is still in development from what I hear).

We have built a DB backed filesystem for use in a content management system (http://www.ethlife.ethz.ch/newcms), based on the AVFS LD_PRELOAD version, and embedding perl so we could write the actual filesystem implementation in perl. It has required quite a bit of labour, but works well for our purpose now. It's GPL'd, but not yet polished for publication, so contact me if you're interested.

Christian.

Signature · 2 lines
Christian Jaeger  Programmer & System Engineer
ETHLife CMS Project - www.ethlife.ethz.ch/newcms - www.ethlife.ethz.ch