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Max storage size per system

linux-lvm Stephan Austermuehle 12 participants 24 messages Mar 4, 2003 – May 5, 2003

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#0 lore raw

Hello,

what is the absolut maximum storage capacity that can be managed on a single Linux 2.4 system with LVM?

Kind regards,

Stephan

#1 lore raw
Quoted 5 lines · Stephan Austermuehle

Hello,

what is the absolut maximum storage capacity that can be managed on a single Linux 2.4 system with LVM?

man vgcreate
-s, --physicalextentsize PhysicalExtentSize[kKmMgGtT]
Sets the physical extent size on physical volumes of this
volume group.
A size suffix (k for kilobytes up to t for terabytes)
is optional,
megabytes is the default if no suffix is present. Values
can be from 8
KB to 16 GB in powers of 2. The default of 4 MB causes
maximum LV sizes
of ~256GB because as many as ~64k extents are supported
per LV. In case
larger maximum LV sizes are needed (later), you need to
set the PE size
to a larger value as well. Later changes of the PE size
in an existing
VG are not supported.

So, this means you can allocate
64k * 16G == 64*1024 * 16*1024*1024*1024 == 1125899906842624 bytes == 1024Tera Bytes,

Hovever,
To limit kernel memory usage, there is a limit of 65536 physical
extents (PE)
per logical volume, so the PE size determines the maximum
logical volume size.
The default PE size of 4MB limits a single logical volume to
256GB (see the -s
option to raise that limit). There is also (as of Linux 2.4) a
kernel limita­
tion of 2TB per block device.

So, this would mean 2TB pr. LV, but there can also be a number of LV's. I dont remember how many, but proberly a power of 2, like 256 or 64k. But wait, there is more...
You can have more than one VG system on your linux (no idea how many, i have had 2)
So, all in all, i would asume you can have MANY TERABYTES. Possibly Penta? bytes ?

How much space do you need anyway ?

JonB

#2 lore raw
Quoted 1 line · Jon Bendtsen

So, this would mean 2TB pr. LV, but there can also be a number of LV's.

Okay, so the LVM can manage really large disk storage. Does anybody know whether the number of mounted filesystem per Linux system is limited?

Quoted 1 line

How much space do you need anyway ?

100+ Terabytes

Kind regards,

Stephan

#3 lore raw
Quoted 10 lines · Jon Bendtsen
Quoted 2 lines

So, this would mean 2TB pr. LV, but there can also be a number of LV's.

Okay, so the LVM can manage really large disk storage. Does anybody know whether the number of mounted filesystem per Linux system is limited?

Quoted 1 line

How much space do you need anyway ?

100+ Terabytes

Hm,  sounds  like  lots.  :)  What kind of devices will you be running
with.  Even  with  300GB  drives  you will need 300-400 of them to get

100TB.

Quoted 3 lines

Kind regards,

Stephan

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#4 lore raw
Quoted 3 lines · Anders Widman
Hm,  sounds  like  lots.  :)  What kind of devices will you be running
with.  Even  with  300GB  drives  you will need 300-400 of them to get

100TB.

Easily achieved w/ such technologies as iscsi and hyperscsi (;

Signature · 3 lines
Jesse Keating RHCE MCSE
Pogo Linux -- Support Tech
tel: (888) 828-7646 ex: 436
#5 lore raw
Quoted 1 line · Jesse Keating

Easily achieved w/ such technologies as iscsi and hyperscsi (;

Which are nothing but trash.

Kind regards,

Stephan

#6 lore raw
Quoted 3 lines · Stephan Austermuehle
Quoted 1 line · Jesse Keating

Easily achieved w/ such technologies as iscsi and hyperscsi (;

Which are nothing but trash.

Hey man, don't pull any punches, tell us how you *Really* feel.

Signature · 4 lines
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, 
Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right 
answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion 
of ideas that could provoke such a question." -- Charles Babbage 
#7 lore raw
Quoted 1 line · Petro

Hey man, don't pull any punches, tell us how you *Really* feel.

Well, iSCSI was developed and pushed by some networking guys with Ethernet in mind to get into the storage market without developing know how for a really efficient data link. So iSCSI has to handle lots of
overhead: SCSI commands are encapsulated in IP, IP is encapuslated in Ethernet. This leads to bad performance (latency, throughput) compared to a Fibre Channel connection with the same link speed. Maybe the performance impact will become negligible with 10G or 100G Ethernet but at the moment we don't have these technologies available.

Stephan

#8 lore raw

On Friday 07 March 2003 06:20, Stephan Austermuehle uttered:

Quoted 8 lines

Well, iSCSI was developed and pushed by some networking guys with Ethernet in mind to get into the storage market without developing know how for a really efficient data link. So iSCSI has to handle lots of
overhead: SCSI commands are encapsulated in IP, IP is encapuslated in Ethernet. This leads to bad performance (latency, throughput) compared to a Fibre Channel connection with the same link speed. Maybe the performance impact will become negligible with 10G or 100G Ethernet but at the moment we don't have these technologies available.

This speaks nothing of HyperSCSI which is indepenant of TCP/IP and all of it's ugly overhead. Hyperscsi runs in raw ethernet, no TCP/IP even need be on the wire. Data writing w/ HyperSCSI is far faster than with NFS or iSCSI.

Signature · 3 lines
Jesse Keating RHCE MCSE
Pogo Linux -- Support Tech
tel: 888.828.7646
#9 lore raw
In reply to Anders Widman
Quoted 3 lines · Anders Widman
Hm,  sounds  like  lots.  :)  What kind of devices will you be running
with.  Even  with  300GB  drives  you will need 300-400 of them to get

100TB.

A single HP XP 1024 (which is an OEM product of a HDS Lightning) stores 130 TB with a 7p1 RAID5 configuration and 146 GB disks.

Kind regards,

Stephan

#10 lore raw
Quoted 8 lines · Stephan Austermuehle
Quoted 3 lines · Anders Widman
Hm,  sounds  like  lots.  :)  What kind of devices will you be running
with.  Even  with  300GB  drives  you will need 300-400 of them to get

100TB.

A single HP XP 1024 (which is an OEM product of a HDS Lightning) stores 130 TB with a 7p1 RAID5 configuration and 146 GB disks.

hmm, that would need 130T/0.146T = 890 disks. And running raid 5... personaly i dont like raid5, because if you loose more than one disk your data are gone, and with this ammount of disks, i expect failure rather often. (it's proberly not one big raid5 array, but that just makes it need more disks).

JonB

#11 lore raw
Quoted 1 line · On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 05:21:50PM +0100, [email protected] wrote:

hmm, that would need 130T/0.146T = 890 disks. And running raid 5...

Please have a look at the following links. A single HDS Lightning (aka HP XP 1024) can address up to 1,024 disks.

	http://www.hp.com/products1/storage/products/disk_arrays/highend/xp1024/index.html

	http://www.hds.com/products/systems/9900v/
Quoted 4 lines

personaly i dont like raid5, because if you loose more than one disk your data are gone, and with this ammount of disks, i expect failure rather often. (it's proberly not one big raid5 array, but that just makes it need more disks).

I prefer RAID 1 (or RAID 10), too, but sometimes one has to use RAID 5. A common strategy is to put a higher number of hot spare drives in one system. Another (somewhat newer) strategy is to use two rotating parity drives per RAID set.

Stephan

#12 lore raw
Quoted 11 lines · Stephan Austermuehle
Quoted 1 line · On Thu, Mar 06, 2003 at 05:21:50PM +0100, [email protected] wrote:

hmm, that would need 130T/0.146T = 890 disks. And running raid 5...

Please have a look at the following links. A single HDS Lightning (aka HP XP 1024) can address up to 1,024 disks.

        http://www.hp.com/products1/storage/products/disk_arrays/highend/xp1024/index.html

        http://www.hds.com/products/systems/9900v/

nice, imagien all that porn ;-D

Quoted 9 lines
Quoted 4 lines

personaly i dont like raid5, because if you loose more than one disk your data are gone, and with this ammount of disks, i expect failure rather often. (it's proberly not one big raid5 array, but that just makes it need more disks).

I prefer RAID 1 (or RAID 10), too, but sometimes one has to use RAID 5. A common strategy is to put a higher number of hot spare drives in one system. Another (somewhat newer) strategy is to use two rotating parity drives per RAID set.

2 rotating parity disks ? Can you elaborate on how that works ? I have thought about using something else than raid5, where you would split the data across a number of disks, AND use a mirrored device for storing the parity on.

JonB

#15 lore raw
In reply to Stephan Austermuehle

Hello,

Quoted 2 lines · Stephan Austermuehle

Okay, so the LVM can manage really large disk storage. Does anybody know whether the number of mounted filesystem per Linux system is limited?

yes, it is limited through the kernel. There are two ways out of it:

a) increase the number (fiddle through the source, recompile, reboot)
b) use the automounter

If you don't need all filesystems mounted at once I'd suggest the second approach. (e.g. for samba or backup store, whatever)

Signature · 3 lines
Regards,

Wiktor Wodecki
#16 lore raw

[linux-lvm] can i extend a volumen bigger 256 gigas ?thx

Hello,

It is possible to extend a volumen more than 256 gigas? it doesnt let me grow the space.
this is muy info :
root]# cat /proc/lvm/global
LVM module LVM version 1.0.3(19/02/2002)

Total: 1 VG 2 PVs 1 LV (1 LV open 1 times)

Global: 449424 bytes malloced IOP version: 10 1175 days 12:40:03 active

VG: gl [2 PV, 1 LV/1 open] PE Size: 4096 KB
Usage [KB/PE]: 294883328 /71993 total 113950720 /27820 used 180932608
/44173 free
PVs: [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4 113950720 /27820 113950720
/27820 0 /0

       [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part1 180932608 /44173          0 /0
180932608 /44173
    LV:  [AWDL  ] vol1                     113950720 /27820    1x open

i have installed: lvm-1.0.1-2mdk.i586.rpm

thanks on advanced.

#17 lore raw

Re: [linux-lvm] can i extend a volumen bigger 256 gigas ?thx

when you create your volume group you can change the extent size with the -s switch. recent versions of LVM use 32MB as the default which gives you a max LV of about 2TB. the old default extent size of 4MB gave you about 255GB max LV size.

Quoted 31 lines · fnt

Hello,

It is possible to extend a volumen more than 256 gigas? it doesnt let me grow the space.
this is muy info :
root]# cat /proc/lvm/global
LVM module LVM version 1.0.3(19/02/2002)

Total: 1 VG 2 PVs 1 LV (1 LV open 1 times)

Global: 449424 bytes malloced IOP version: 10 1175 days 12:40:03 active

VG: gl [2 PV, 1 LV/1 open] PE Size: 4096 KB
Usage [KB/PE]: 294883328 /71993 total 113950720 /27820 used 180932608
/44173 free
PVs: [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4 113950720 /27820 113950720
/27820 0 /0

       [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part1 180932608 /44173          0 /0
180932608 /44173
    LV:  [AWDL  ] vol1                     113950720 /27820    1x open

i have installed: lvm-1.0.1-2mdk.i586.rpm

thanks on advanced.

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.sistina.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

Signature · 10 lines
====================================
Erik Nugent
System Administrator
Department of Computer Science
The University of Montana, Missoula
(406) 243-2812
====================================
"Tee off and fly freely"
	"Steady" Ed
====================================
#18 lore raw

Re: [linux-lvm] can i extend a volumen bigger 256 gigas ?thx

In reply to fnt

Yes, it is possible. What's the command you're using and the error you get? The maximum size of a logical volume is a function of the volume group physical extent size (I don't remember the details). You may need to create the volume group with a larger physical extent in order to have larger capacity logical volumes, for instance, 'vgcreate -s 16m ...'. As far as I know, you do have to recreate the volume group in order to change the physical extent size. Hope this helps.

---
Daniel Barbar

Quoted 31 lines · fnt

Hello,

It is possible to extend a volumen more than 256 gigas? it doesnt let me grow the space.
this is muy info :
root]# cat /proc/lvm/global
LVM module LVM version 1.0.3(19/02/2002)

Total: 1 VG 2 PVs 1 LV (1 LV open 1 times)

Global: 449424 bytes malloced IOP version: 10 1175 days 12:40:03 active

VG: gl [2 PV, 1 LV/1 open] PE Size: 4096 KB
Usage [KB/PE]: 294883328 /71993 total 113950720 /27820 used 180932608
/44173 free
PVs: [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4 113950720 /27820 113950720
/27820 0 /0

       [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part1 180932608 /44173          0 /0
180932608 /44173
    LV:  [AWDL  ] vol1                     113950720 /27820    1x open

i have installed: lvm-1.0.1-2mdk.i586.rpm

thanks on advanced.

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.sistina.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

Signature · 1 line
Daniel Barbar
#19 lore raw

Re: [linux-lvm] can i extend a volumen bigger 256 gigas ?thx-thanks for ur time

thx for ur time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Barbar" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [linux-lvm] can i extend a volumen bigger 256 gigas ?thx

Quoted 9 lines

Yes, it is possible. What's the command you're using and the error you get? The maximum size of a logical volume is a function of the volume group physical extent size (I don't remember the details). You may need to create the volume group with a larger physical extent in order to have larger capacity logical volumes, for instance, 'vgcreate -s 16m ...'. As far as I know, you do have to recreate the volume group in order to change the physical extent size. Hope this helps.

Quoted 15 lines

---
Daniel Barbar

Quoted 11 lines · fnt

Hello,

It is possible to extend a volumen more than 256 gigas? it doesnt let me grow the space.
this is muy info :
root]# cat /proc/lvm/global
LVM module LVM version 1.0.3(19/02/2002)

Total: 1 VG 2 PVs 1 LV (1 LV open 1 times)

Global: 449424 bytes malloced IOP version: 10 1175 days 12:40:03

active

Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 3 lines

VG: gl [2 PV, 1 LV/1 open] PE Size: 4096 KB
Usage [KB/PE]: 294883328 /71993 total 113950720 /27820 used

180932608

Quoted 2 lines
Quoted 2 lines

/44173 free
PVs: [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4 113950720 /27820

113950720

Quoted 2 lines
Quoted 2 lines

/27820 0 /0

       [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part1 180932608 /44173

0 /0

Quoted 23 lines
Quoted 5 lines

180932608 /44173

    LV:  [AWDL  ] vol1                     113950720 /27820    1x open

i have installed: lvm-1.0.1-2mdk.i586.rpm

Quoted 8 lines

thanks on advanced.

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.sistina.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

--
Daniel Barbar

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.sistina.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

#20 lore raw

Re: [linux-lvm] can i extend a volumen bigger 256 gigas ?thx

In reply to Daniel Barbar

Hi,

Recreating the VG , i will keep the data?
thx

Joaquin Ign.
Best Regads-
---- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Barbar" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [linux-lvm] can i extend a volumen bigger 256 gigas ?thx

Quoted 9 lines

Yes, it is possible. What's the command you're using and the error you get? The maximum size of a logical volume is a function of the volume group physical extent size (I don't remember the details). You may need to create the volume group with a larger physical extent in order to have larger capacity logical volumes, for instance, 'vgcreate -s 16m ...'. As far as I know, you do have to recreate the volume group in order to change the physical extent size. Hope this helps.

Quoted 15 lines

---
Daniel Barbar

Quoted 11 lines · fnt

Hello,

It is possible to extend a volumen more than 256 gigas? it doesnt let me grow the space.
this is muy info :
root]# cat /proc/lvm/global
LVM module LVM version 1.0.3(19/02/2002)

Total: 1 VG 2 PVs 1 LV (1 LV open 1 times)

Global: 449424 bytes malloced IOP version: 10 1175 days 12:40:03

active

Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 3 lines

VG: gl [2 PV, 1 LV/1 open] PE Size: 4096 KB
Usage [KB/PE]: 294883328 /71993 total 113950720 /27820 used

180932608

Quoted 2 lines
Quoted 2 lines

/44173 free
PVs: [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4 113950720 /27820

113950720

Quoted 2 lines
Quoted 2 lines

/27820 0 /0

       [AA] ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part1 180932608 /44173

0 /0

Quoted 23 lines
Quoted 5 lines

180932608 /44173

    LV:  [AWDL  ] vol1                     113950720 /27820    1x open

i have installed: lvm-1.0.1-2mdk.i586.rpm

Quoted 8 lines

thanks on advanced.

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.sistina.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

--
Daniel Barbar

_______________________________________________
linux-lvm mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.sistina.com/mailman/listinfo/linux-lvm
read the LVM HOW-TO at http://tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/

#21 lore raw

Re: [linux-lvm] can i extend a volumen bigger 256 gigas ?thx

In reply to fnt
Quoted 2 lines · fnt

It is possible to extend a volumen more than 256 gigas?

Yes.

Quoted 6 lines

it doesnt let me grow the space.
this is muy info :
root]# cat /proc/lvm/global
VG: gl [2 PV, 1 LV/1 open] PE Size: 4096 KB
Usage [KB/PE]: 294883328 /71993 total 113950720 /27820 used 180932608

Directly from vgcreate(8) (lvm2 tools, version 1.95.15-1 (Debian Sid)):

To limit kernel memory usage, there is a limit of 65536 physical extents (PE) per logical volume, so the PE size determines the maximum logical volume size. The default PE size of 4MB limits a single logi- cal volume to 256GB (see the -s option to raise that limit). There is also (as of Linux 2.4) a kernel limitation of 2TB per block device.

As far as I remember, this limit is also there in LVM1.

Hope it helps.

Signature · 2 lines
Jose Luis Domingo Lopez
Linux Registered User #189436     Debian Linux Sid (Linux 2.5.68)
#22 lore raw
In reply to Stephan Austermuehle
Quoted 6 lines · Stephan Austermuehle
Quoted 1 line · Jon Bendtsen

So, this would mean 2TB pr. LV, but there can also be a number of LV's.

Okay, so the LVM can manage really large disk storage. Does anybody know whether the number of mounted filesystem per Linux system is limited?

i think you need to read up on how LVM works. In the bottom you have pv's. physical volumes. They are divided into physical extends which can be from 4k to 16G. But you set this for the hole VolumenGroup. The VG has a name, and can span several physical devices. Inside this VG, you make a LV, LogicalVolumen. The LV can hold 64k PE, physical extends, which if you make them 16G... means 1024T ? however, the LV is a blockdevice, and thus an LV cant be bigger than 2T. So you would have to use many LV's to store 100+T.

Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 1 line

How much space do you need anyway ?

100+ Terabytes

What do you need it for ?

JonB

#23 lore raw
In reply to Stephan Austermuehle

Maximum of 256 LVs * 2TB in stock 2.4 = 512TB.

Quoted 8 lines · Stephan Austermuehle

Hello,

what is the absolut maximum storage capacity that can be managed on a single Linux 2.4 system with LVM?

Kind regards,

Stephan

Signature · 15 lines
Regards,
Heinz    -- The LVM Guy --

*** Software bugs are stupid.
    Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them ***

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