ACPI throttling to death?
Hi,
I'm observing strange behaviour with a Gericom notebook running a 2.6.9 vanilla kernel with custom configuration. The processor used is a P III (Tualatin) with 1.2GHz (which is quite rarely used). It is *not* a mobile processor (no speedstep etc.), instead it supports 16 throttling levels.
Sometimes (I guess when the machine is getting overheated - the notebook design is really bad and the fan is quite lousy) ACPI temperature monitor shows >70 degrees (Celsius) and the system starts throttling.
Until here everything is fine IMO.
But what happens next is that the systems slows down continuously (you can monitor the current throttling level going up and up) until it reaches the last level (12%). Soon after that the whole machine is locked up hard, display still showing the current graphics. I guess it throttled to a "deathly" 0%...
Is this more a linux acpi problem or a fault in this particular machine? What could be done about it? how can I debug further?
Thanks for any hints,
jan
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Quoted 6 lines · Jan Frey
Hi,
I'm observing strange behaviour with a Gericom notebook running a 2.6.9 vanilla kernel with custom configuration. The processor used is a P III (Tualatin) with 1.2GHz (which is quite rarely used). It is *not* a mobile processor (no speedstep etc.), instead it supports 16 throttling levels.
Hard to tell exactly. Since there is 16 throttling levels the chipset is probably not an intel one, and we weren't able to provide a speedstep driver for chipset other than intel one for older laptops :(
Quoted 10 lines
Sometimes (I guess when the machine is getting overheated - the notebook design is really bad and the fan is quite lousy) ACPI temperature monitor shows >70 degrees (Celsius) and the system starts throttling.
Until here everything is fine IMO.
But what happens next is that the systems slows down continuously (you can monitor the current throttling level going up and up) until it reaches the last level (12%). Soon after that the whole machine is locked up hard, display still showing the current graphics. I guess it throttled to a "deathly" 0%...
There isn't 0% level, so I guess the laptop stop due to overheat condition. Is it possible to control cpu fan in that machine? Is there by chance support for power saving idling (at least C2)?
cat /proc/acpi/processor/*/power
Cheers,
Signature · 11 lines
Bruno Ducrot -- Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? -- Don't know. Don't care. ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
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Quoted 12 lines · Bruno Ducrot
Quoted 11 lines
Sometimes (I guess when the machine is getting overheated - the notebook design is really bad and the fan is quite lousy) ACPI temperature monitor shows >70 degrees (Celsius) and the system starts throttling.
Until here everything is fine IMO.
But what happens next is that the systems slows down continuously (you can monitor the current throttling level going up and up) until it reaches the last level (12%). Soon after that the whole machine is locked up hard, display still showing the current graphics. I guess it throttled to a "deathly" 0%...
Quoted 2 lines
There isn't 0% level, so I guess the laptop stop due to overheat condition. Is it possible to control cpu fan in that machine? Is there
It is possible to control the fan at two states, but I'm already drinving it on the "loudest" one...
Quoted 1 line
by chance support for power saving idling (at least C2)?
Hmmm, if I recall correctly it had C1/C2, but I'm not 100% sure.
Quoted 1 line
cat
/proc/acpi/processor/*/power
Currently I cannot get hold of that machine, I'll send you that ASAP.
Why doesn't throttling reduce CPU temp? It seems to be stuck at about 70 degress all the time...
"Stop due to overheat" seems to be best explanation currently...
Br
Jan
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Jan Frey [email protected] ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
Am Montag, 4. April 2005 20:14 schrieb Jan Frey:
Quoted 18 lines
Hi,
I'm observing strange behaviour with a Gericom notebook running a 2.6.9 vanilla kernel with custom configuration. The processor used is a P III (Tualatin) with 1.2GHz (which is quite rarely used). It is *not* a mobile processor (no speedstep etc.), instead it supports 16 throttling levels.
Sometimes (I guess when the machine is getting overheated - the notebook design is really bad and the fan is quite lousy) ACPI temperature monitor shows >70 degrees (Celsius) and the system starts throttling.
Until here everything is fine IMO.
But what happens next is that the systems slows down continuously (you can monitor the current throttling level going up and up) until it reaches the last level (12%). Soon after that the whole machine is locked up hard, display still showing the current graphics. I guess it throttled to a "deathly" 0%...
Quoted 2 lines
Is this more a linux acpi problem or a fault in this particular machine? What could be done about it? how can I debug further?
My desktop machine locked up if it got to hot(70-75 degrees, amd duron processor). I bought a better CPU fan and the problem is gone. Well, that's impossible on notebooks.
Is there a 0% throttling level? What happens if you stop processor hungry tasks to allow the machine to cool down?
Stefan
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Quoted 24 lines · Stefan Dösinger
Am Montag, 4. April 2005 20:14 schrieb Jan Frey:
Quoted 20 lines
Hi,
I'm observing strange behaviour with a Gericom notebook running a 2.6.9 vanilla kernel with custom configuration. The processor used is a P III (Tualatin) with 1.2GHz (which is quite rarely used). It is *not* a mobile processor (no speedstep etc.), instead it supports 16 throttling levels.
Sometimes (I guess when the machine is getting overheated - the notebook design is really bad and the fan is quite lousy) ACPI temperature monitor shows >70 degrees (Celsius) and the system starts throttling.
Until here everything is fine IMO.
But what happens next is that the systems slows down continuously (you can monitor the current throttling level going up and up) until it reaches the last level (12%). Soon after that the whole machine is locked up hard, display still showing the current graphics. I guess it throttled to a "deathly" 0%...Quoted 2 lines
Is this more a linux acpi problem or a fault in this particular machine? What could be done about it? how can I debug further?
Quoted 6 lines
My desktop machine locked up if it got to
hot(70-75 degrees, amd duron processor). I bought a better CPU fan and the problem is gone. Well, that's impossible on notebooks.Is there a 0% throttling level? What happens if you stop processor hungry tasks to allow the machine to cool down?
No, there is no 0% level. Unfortunately this also does not seem to be related to any level of CPU utilization: sometimes the machines locks up even if it is nearly idle, e.g. writing/sending email...
Really astonishing: CPU temperature seems to go up to roughly 70 degrees quite quickly and then it stays there nearly forever: it does not matter whether CPU load is 0 or 1.. And: throttling also does not lower CPU temp, I thought this would be main reason...
Br
Jan
Signature · 9 lines
Jan Frey [email protected] ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click
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Quoted 4 lines · Jan Frey
Really astonishing: CPU temperature seems to go up to roughly 70 degrees quite quickly and then it stays there nearly forever: it does not matter whether CPU load is 0 or 1.. And: throttling also does not lower CPU temp, I thought this would be main reason...
BTW, are you sure throttling work OK?
In order to test this, you may try something like 'openssl speed md5' for each levels. The results given should be roughly linear.
Also I'm wondering what is actually the output of ACPI tables. Would help if you do something like that:
wget ftp://ftp.kernel.org//pub/linux/kernel/people/lenb/acpi/utils/pmtools-20031210.tar.bz2 tar xjvfp pmtools-20031210.tar.bz2
cd pmtools-20031210/acpidmp
make
sudo ./acpidmp > acpidmp.out
bzip2 acpidmp.out
Then mail me the acpidmp.out.bz2
I'm in fact more interrested with FADT and DSDT, but other tables wont hurt.
I'm still wondering if I'm right to think that its not an intel chipset. If its an Intel one, then something is wrong. Intel chipset support 8 throttling levels, not 16. Could you please do a lspci -v?
Cheers,
Signature · 11 lines
Bruno Ducrot -- Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? -- Don't know. Don't care. ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
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Quoted 7 lines · Bruno Ducrot
Quoted 4 lines · Jan Frey
Really astonishing: CPU temperature seems to go up to roughly 70 degrees quite quickly and then it stays there nearly forever: it does not matter whether CPU load is 0 or 1.. And: throttling also does not lower CPU temp, I thought this would be main reason...
BTW, are you sure throttling work OK?
At least you can notice remarkable slowdown and loss of responsiveness when throttling is supposed to be active. This effect is also dependent on the throttling level, the higher it is the more noticeable those delays are... So at least on the "slow-down" side of things it seems to be working, but unfortunately it does not decrease CPU temp...
Quoted 1 line
Then mail me the acpidmp.out.bz2
I will do so as soon as possible.
Quoted 3 lines
I'm still wondering if I'm right to think that its not an intel chipset. If its an Intel one, then something is wrong. Intel chipset support 8 throttling levels, not 16. Could you please do a lspci -v?
Oh yes, I totally forgot. If I remember correctly it is some VIA chipset. lspci output will also follow.
Br
Jan
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Quoted 7 lines · Jan Frey
Quoted 1 line
BTW, are you sure throttling work OK?
At least you can notice remarkable slowdown and loss of responsiveness when throttling is supposed to be active. This effect is also dependent on the throttling level, the higher it is the more noticeable those delays are... So at least on the "slow-down" side of things it seems to be working, but unfortunately it does not decrease CPU temp...
Well... BTW, throttling is only a way to force somehow a certain amount of idle time to be done, somehow. If you have some trouble even if the system is mostly idle, throttling wont help.
Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 1 line
Then mail me the acpidmp.out.bz2
I will do so as soon as possible.
OK, got it. Will look.
Quoted 6 lines
Quoted 3 lines
I'm still wondering if I'm right to think that its not an intel chipset. If its an Intel one, then something is wrong. Intel chipset support 8 throttling levels, not 16. Could you please do a lspci -v?
Oh yes, I totally forgot. If I remember correctly it is some VIA chipset. lspci output will also follow.
I remember that some southbridge are broken, though I'm only aware problem with some PIIX4 (it is in an errata, I don't remember exactly which version). Maybe its the case here?
Does your laptop hang if forcing throttling level at 12%?
Signature · 11 lines
Bruno Ducrot -- Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? -- Don't know. Don't care. ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
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Hi,
this notebook seems to use C2 nearly all the time:
active state: C2 default state: C1 bus master activity: 00000000
states:
C1: promotion[C2] demotion[--] latency[000]
usage[00007950]
*C2: promotion[--] demotion[C1] latency[020]
usage[00742673]
C3: <not supported>
Hey, yet another fascinating finding:
cat /proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling
state count: 16
active state: T0
states:
*T0: 00%
T1: 06%
T2: 12%
T3: 18%
T4: 24%
T5: 31%
T6: 37%
T7: 43%
T8: 49%
T9: 55%
T10: 62%
T11: 68%
T12: 74%
T13: 80%
T14: 86%
T15: 93%Now I did: echo 14 >/proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling what resulted in sever slow down of the machine. And then:
echo 15 >/proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling
really caused the machine to hang!! So it seems to be T15 state that "kills" the machine!?
Two questions:
a) why does it get so hot that even throttling does not help? (It does not do so running Win2k)
b) why does it die in T15?
Br
Jan
Quoted 32 lines · Bruno Ducrot
Quoted 8 lines · Jan Frey
Quoted 1 line
BTW, are you sure throttling work OK?
At least you can notice remarkable slowdown and loss of responsiveness when throttling is supposed to be active. This effect is also dependent on the throttling level, the higher it is the more noticeable those delays are... So at least on the "slow-down" side of things it seems to be working, but unfortunately it does not decrease CPU temp...
Well... BTW, throttling is only a way to force somehow a certain amount of idle time to be done, somehow. If you have some trouble even if the system is mostly idle, throttling wont help.
Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 1 line
Then mail me the acpidmp.out.bz2
I will do so as soon as possible.
OK, got it. Will look.
Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 4 lines
I'm still wondering if I'm right to think that its not an intel chipset. If its an Intel one, then something is wrong. Intel chipset support 8 throttling levels, not 16. Could you please do a lspci -v?
Oh yes, I totally forgot. If I remember correctly it is some VIA chipset. lspci output will also follow.
I remember that some southbridge are broken, though I'm only aware problem with some PIIX4 (it is in an errata, I don't remember exactly which version). Maybe its the case here?
Does your laptop hang if forcing throttling level at 12%?
Signature · 13 lines
+------------------------------------------------+ ! Jan Frey email: janfrey-S0/[email protected] ! ! Taubenstr. 1 phone: 0234-3694671 ! ! D-44789 Bochum cell : 0175-1241106 ! ! Germany ! +------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
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Quoted 42 lines · Jan Frey
Hi,
this notebook seems to use C2 nearly all the time:
active state: C2 default state: C1 bus master activity: 00000000states:
C1: promotion[C2] demotion[--] latency[000]
usage[00007950]
*C2: promotion[--] demotion[C1] latency[020]
usage[00742673]
C3: <not supported>Hey, yet another fascinating finding:
cat/proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttlingstate count: 16 active state: T0 states: *T0: 00% T1: 06% T2: 12% T3: 18% T4: 24% T5: 31% T6: 37% T7: 43% T8: 49% T9: 55% T10: 62% T11: 68% T12: 74% T13: 80% T14: 86% T15: 93%Now I did: echo 14 >/proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling what resulted in sever slow down of the machine. And then:
echo 15 >/proc/acpi/processor/CPU0/throttling
really caused the machine to hang!! So it seems to be T15 state that "kills" the machine!?
Quoted 3 lines
Two questions:
a) why does it get so hot that even throttling does not help? (It does not do so running Win2k)
My only guess is that C2 is broken in the sense that the northbridge and/or the southbridge are not configured properly.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to VIA datasheets (I've tryed two times in the past. Never got even a single answer).
Quoted 1 line
b) why does it die in T15?
single copy and past of one of an early email:
Quoted 4 lines
Quoted 4 lines
I remember that some southbridge are broken, though I'm only aware problem with some PIIX4 (it is in an errata, I don't remember exactly which version). Maybe its the case here?
Does your laptop hang if forcing throttling level at 12%?
So I guess we have to implement a little quirk in order to not allow T15 for that ALi southbridge...
Cheers,
Signature · 11 lines
Bruno Ducrot -- Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? -- Don't know. Don't care. ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
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Quoted 2 lines · Bruno Ducrot
So I guess we have to implement a little quirk in order to not allow T15 for that ALi southbridge...
^^^ VIA (sorry)
Signature · 11 lines
Bruno Ducrot -- Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? -- Don't know. Don't care. ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
Quoted 31 lines · Jan Frey
Quoted 21 lines · Stefan Dösinger
Am Montag, 4. April 2005 20:14 schrieb Jan Frey:
Quoted 20 lines
Hi,
I'm observing strange behaviour with a Gericom notebook running a 2.6.9 vanilla kernel with custom configuration. The processor used is a P III (Tualatin) with 1.2GHz (which is quite rarely used). It is *not* a mobile processor (no speedstep etc.), instead it supports 16 throttling levels.
Sometimes (I guess when the machine is getting overheated - the notebook design is really bad and the fan is quite lousy) ACPI temperature monitor shows >70 degrees (Celsius) and the system starts throttling.
Until here everything is fine IMO.
But what happens next is that the systems slows down continuously (you can monitor the current throttling level going up and up) until it reaches the last level (12%). Soon after that the whole machine is locked up hard, display still showing the current graphics. I guess it throttled to a "deathly" 0%...Quoted 8 lines
Quoted 2 lines
Is this more a linux acpi problem or a fault in this particular machine? What could be done about it? how can I debug further?
My desktop machine locked up if it got to
hot(70-75 degrees, amd duron processor). I bought a better CPU fan and the problem is gone. Well, that's impossible on notebooks.Is there a 0% throttling level? What happens if you stop processor hungry tasks to allow the machine to cool down?
Quoted 8 lines
No, there is no 0% level. Unfortunately this also does not seem to be related to any level of CPU utilization: sometimes the machines locks up even if it is nearly idle, e.g. writing/sending email...
Really astonishing: CPU temperature seems to go up to roughly 70 degrees quite quickly and then it stays there nearly forever: it does not matter whether CPU load is 0 or 1.. And: throttling also does not lower CPU temp, I thought this would be main reason...
The temperature is fixed to exactly 70 C?
I saw machines where a fixed temperature is returned depending on some bit/byte in EC/SystemIO.
Sounds like this one does the same?
You'll find out by going back the _TMP code in the DSDT.
The value should be about 0xD66 ((70+273)*10, right?)
Thomas
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Hi,
this is all what can be found regarding _TMP in DSDT:
Method (_TMP, 0, NotSerialized)
{
SHOW ("THRM_TMP")
Store (\_SB.PCI0.PIB.PMRD (0xE7), Local0)
Multiply (Local0, 0x0A, Local0)
Add (Local0, 0x0AAA, Local0)
If (LEqual (Local0, 0x0AAA))
{
Return (0x0B72)
}
Else
{
Return (Local0)
}
SHOW ("THRM_TMP Return")
SHOW (Local0)
Return (Local0)
}Unfortunately it does not tell me anything.. Only fixed value I can see is 0xb72 and following your calculus it should result in 20 degrees, not 70. Anyhow, I'm not so sure whether it is really stuck at 70 exactly, might be that it also (quite randomly) reaches 69,71,etc. I'd have to investigate more detailed.
Br
jan
Quoted 50 lines · Thomas Renninger
Quoted 32 lines · Jan Frey
Quoted 24 lines · Stefan Dösinger
Am Montag, 4. April 2005 20:14 schrieb Jan Frey:
Quoted 20 lines
Hi,
I'm observing strange behaviour with a Gericom notebook running a 2.6.9 vanilla kernel with custom configuration. The processor used is a P III (Tualatin) with 1.2GHz (which is quite rarely used). It is *not* a mobile processor (no speedstep etc.), instead it supports 16 throttling levels.
Sometimes (I guess when the machine is getting overheated - the notebook design is really bad and the fan is quite lousy) ACPI temperature monitor shows >70 degrees (Celsius) and the system starts throttling.
Until here everything is fine IMO.
But what happens next is that the systems slows down continuously (you can monitor the current throttling level going up and up) until it reaches the last level (12%). Soon after that the whole machine is locked up hard, display still showing the current graphics. I guess it throttled to a "deathly" 0%...Quoted 2 lines
Is this more a linux acpi problem or a fault in this particular machine? What could be done about it? how can I debug further?
Quoted 6 lines
My desktop machine locked up if it got to
hot(70-75 degrees, amd duron processor). I bought a better CPU fan and the problem is gone. Well, that's impossible on notebooks.Is there a 0% throttling level? What happens if you stop processor hungry tasks to allow the machine to cool down?
Quoted 8 lines
No, there is no 0% level. Unfortunately this also does not seem to be related to any level of CPU utilization: sometimes the machines locks up even if it is nearly idle, e.g. writing/sending email...
Really astonishing: CPU temperature seems to go up to roughly 70 degrees quite quickly and then it stays there nearly forever: it does not matter whether CPU load is 0 or 1.. And: throttling also does not lower CPU temp, I thought this would be main reason...
The temperature is fixed to exactly 70 C?
I saw machines where a fixed temperature is returned depending on some bit/byte in EC/SystemIO.
Sounds like this one does the same?
You'll find out by going back the_TMPcode in the DSDT. The value should be about0xD66((70+273)*10, right?)Thomas
Signature · 13 lines
+------------------------------------------------+ ! Jan Frey email: janfrey-S0/[email protected] ! ! Taubenstr. 1 phone: 0234-3694671 ! ! D-44789 Bochum cell : 0175-1241106 ! ! Germany ! +------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_ide95&alloc_id396&op=click
Quoted 6 lines · Thomas Renninger
The temperature is fixed to exactly 70 C?
I saw machines where a fixed temperature is returned depending on some bit/byte in EC/SystemIO.
Sounds like this one does the same?
You'll find out by going back the_TMPcode in the DSDT.
The value should be about0xD66((70+273)*10, right?)
Most time its fixed to a low value in order to not trigger all the thermal stuff.
(I also see one with a fixed 0xBAD which correspond to 26 C)
Signature · 11 lines
Bruno Ducrot -- Which is worse: ignorance or apathy? -- Don't know. Don't care. ------------------------------------------------------- SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users. Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
Hi,
I found this thread and was quite happy at first. It seems you describe my problems with SUSE Linux 9.3 on Gericom M6T exactly. Problem: I know very little about Linux and nothing about acpi stuff. So is there any solution for this problem?
By the way I worked with 9.2 version on this computer before. Same problem at the beginning. But by any accident I found a package (which name I do not remember any more) that I deinstalled and the laptop worked. I only had no power management functions any more, but that was ok. Do you have any idea what package that could have been? It was none of the acpi or apm packages.
Thanks in advance
Matthias
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