mtd: spi-nor: only apply reset hacks to broken hardware
Subsystems (3)
PATCH 1/1 mtd: spi-nor: only apply reset hacks to broken hardware
Commit 59b356ffd0b0 ("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:
http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commands
http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problem
http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not used
Previously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).
Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.
While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resend
--- .../devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt | 9 +++++++++ drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c | 18 ++++++++++++++++-- include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h | 1 + 3 files changed, 26 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
Documentation/devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt +9 -0
@@ -69,6 +69,15 @@ Optional properties: all chips and support for it can not be detected at runtime. Refer to your chips' datasheet to check if this is supported by your chip. +- broken-flash-reset : Some flash devices utilize stateful addressing modes + (e.g., for 32-bit addressing) which need to be managed + carefully by a system. Because these sorts of flash don't + have a standardized software reset command, and because some + systems don't toggle the flash RESET# pin upon system reset + (if the pin even exists at all), there are systems which + cannot reboot properly if the flash is left in the "wrong" + state. This boolean flag can be used on such systems, to + denote the absence of a reliable reset mechanism. Example:
drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c +16 -2
@@ -2757,8 +2757,18 @@ static int spi_nor_init(struct spi_nor *nor)if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) { +/* +* If the RESET# pin isn't hooked up properly, or the system +* otherwise doesn't perform a reset command in the boot +* sequence, it's impossible to 100% protect against unexpected +* reboots (e.g., crashes). Warn the user (or hopefully, system +* designer) that this is bad. +*/ +WARN_ONCE (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET , +"enabling reset hack; may not recover from unexpected reboots\n" );set_4byte (nor, nor->info,1 ); + }return 0 ; }
@@ -2781,7 +2791,8 @@ void spi_nor_restore(struct spi_nor *nor)/* restore the addressing mode */ if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES ) && + (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ))set_4byte (nor, nor->info,0 ); }EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL (spi_nor_restore);
@@ -2911,6 +2922,9 @@ int spi_nor_scan(struct spi_nor *nor, const char *name, params.hwcaps.mask |=SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ; } +if (of_property_read_bool (np,"broken-flash-reset" )) + nor->flags |=SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ; +/* Some devices cannot do fast-read, no matter what DT tells us */ if (info->flags &SPI_NOR_NO_FR ) params.hwcaps.mask &= ~SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ;
include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h +1 -0
@@ -235,6 +235,7 @@ enum spi_nor_option_flags {SNOR_F_S3AN_ADDR_DEFAULT =BIT (3 ),SNOR_F_READY_XSR_RDY =BIT (4 ),SNOR_F_USE_CLSR =BIT (5 ), + SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET = BIT(6), };/**
Signature · 6 lines
2.18.0.345.g5c9ce644c3-goog ______________________________________________________ Linux MTD discussion mailing list http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Quoted 43 lines · Brian Norris
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Quoted 5 lines
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>
Quoted 79 lines
---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resend--- .../devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt | 9 +++++++++ drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c | 18 ++++++++++++++++-- include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h | 1 + 3 files changed, 26 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)Documentation/devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt +9
-0@@ -69,6 +69,15 @@ Optional properties: all chips and support for it can not be detected at runtime. Refer to your chips' datasheet to check if this is supported by your chip. +- broken-flash-reset : Some flash devices utilize stateful addressing modes + (e.g., for 32-bit addressing) which need to be managed + carefully by a system. Because these sorts of flash don't + have a standardized software reset command, and because some + systems don't toggle the flash RESET# pin upon system reset + (if the pin even exists at all), there are systems which + cannot reboot properly if the flash is left in the "wrong" + state. This boolean flag can be used on such systems, to + denote the absence of a reliable reset mechanism. Example:drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c +16
-2@@ -2757,8 +2757,18 @@ static int spi_nor_init(struct spi_nor *nor)if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) { +/* +* If the RESET# pin isn't hooked up properly, or the system +* otherwise doesn't perform a reset command in the boot +* sequence, it's impossible to 100% protect against unexpected +* reboots (e.g., crashes). Warn the user (or hopefully, system +* designer) that this is bad. +*/ +WARN_ONCE (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET , +"enabling reset hack; may not recover from unexpected reboots\n" );set_4byte (nor, nor->info,1 ); + }return 0 ; }@@ -2781,7 +2791,8 @@ void spi_nor_restore(struct spi_nor *nor)/* restore the addressing mode */ if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES ) && + (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ))set_4byte (nor, nor->info,0 ); }EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL (spi_nor_restore);@@ -2911,6 +2922,9 @@ int spi_nor_scan(struct spi_nor *nor, const char *name, params.hwcaps.mask |=SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ; } +if (of_property_read_bool (np,"broken-flash-reset" )) + nor->flags |=SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ; +/* Some devices cannot do fast-read, no matter what DT tells us */ if (info->flags &SPI_NOR_NO_FR ) params.hwcaps.mask &= ~SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ;include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h +0
-0
include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h enum spi_nor_option_flags { · line 241
Quoted 7 lines
include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h +1
-0@@ -235,6 +235,7 @@ enum spi_nor_option_flags {SNOR_F_S3AN_ADDR_DEFAULT =BIT (3 ),SNOR_F_READY_XSR_RDY =BIT (4 ),SNOR_F_USE_CLSR =BIT (5 ), + SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET = BIT(6), };/**
______________________________________________________
Linux MTD discussion mailing list
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Quoted 47 lines · On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700 Brian Norris <[email protected]>…
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Quoted 5 lines
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resend
I'm fine with that.
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.
Thanks,
Boris
Quoted 75 lines
--- .../devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt | 9 +++++++++ drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c | 18 ++++++++++++++++-- include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h | 1 + 3 files changed, 26 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)Documentation/devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt +9
-0@@ -69,6 +69,15 @@ Optional properties: all chips and support for it can not be detected at runtime. Refer to your chips' datasheet to check if this is supported by your chip. +- broken-flash-reset : Some flash devices utilize stateful addressing modes + (e.g., for 32-bit addressing) which need to be managed + carefully by a system. Because these sorts of flash don't + have a standardized software reset command, and because some + systems don't toggle the flash RESET# pin upon system reset + (if the pin even exists at all), there are systems which + cannot reboot properly if the flash is left in the "wrong" + state. This boolean flag can be used on such systems, to + denote the absence of a reliable reset mechanism. Example:drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c +16
-2@@ -2757,8 +2757,18 @@ static int spi_nor_init(struct spi_nor *nor)if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) { +/* +* If the RESET# pin isn't hooked up properly, or the system +* otherwise doesn't perform a reset command in the boot +* sequence, it's impossible to 100% protect against unexpected +* reboots (e.g., crashes). Warn the user (or hopefully, system +* designer) that this is bad. +*/ +WARN_ONCE (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET , +"enabling reset hack; may not recover from unexpected reboots\n" );set_4byte (nor, nor->info,1 ); + }return 0 ; }@@ -2781,7 +2791,8 @@ void spi_nor_restore(struct spi_nor *nor)/* restore the addressing mode */ if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES ) && + (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ))set_4byte (nor, nor->info,0 ); }EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL (spi_nor_restore);@@ -2911,6 +2922,9 @@ int spi_nor_scan(struct spi_nor *nor, const char *name, params.hwcaps.mask |=SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ; } +if (of_property_read_bool (np,"broken-flash-reset" )) + nor->flags |=SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ; +/* Some devices cannot do fast-read, no matter what DT tells us */ if (info->flags &SPI_NOR_NO_FR ) params.hwcaps.mask &= ~SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ;include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h +0
-0
include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h enum spi_nor_option_flags { · line 241
Quoted 7 lines
include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h +1
-0@@ -235,6 +235,7 @@ enum spi_nor_option_flags {SNOR_F_S3AN_ADDR_DEFAULT =BIT (3 ),SNOR_F_READY_XSR_RDY =BIT (4 ),SNOR_F_USE_CLSR =BIT (5 ), + SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET = BIT(6), };/**
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Linux MTD discussion mailing list
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Quoted 56 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 47 lines · On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700 Brian Norris <[email protected]>…
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Quoted 5 lines
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resend
Quoted 4 lines
I'm fine with that.
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.
Thanks.
I can confirm that if I apply this patch, my system won't reboot properly (as expected), and if I then add
broken-flash-reset;
to the jedec,spi-nor device, it starts functioning correctly again.
I don't like the pejorative "broken", and it also suggests that a thing used to work, but something happened to break it - this is not accurate.
I would prefer something like "reset-not-connected" which is an accurate description of the state of the hardware.
I also think that having a WARN_ON is an over-reaction. Certainly a warning could be appropriate, but just one pr_warn() should be enough. The "problem" is unlikely in practice, and loudly warning people that an asteroid might kill them isn't particularly helpful.
I genuinely think that if the system fails to reboot, then Linux is at fault. I accept that changing Linux to be completely robust might be more trouble than it is worth, but I don't accept that it is impossible.
But I don't intend to fight either of these battles.
Thanks,
NeilBrown
Quoted 86 lines
Thanks,
Boris
Quoted 81 lines
--- .../devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt | 9 +++++++++ drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c | 18 ++++++++++++++++-- include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h | 1 + 3 files changed, 26 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)Documentation/devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt +9
-0@@ -69,6 +69,15 @@ Optional properties: all chips and support for it can not be detected at runtime. Refer to your chips' datasheet to check if this is supported by your chip. +- broken-flash-reset : Some flash devices utilize stateful addressing modes + (e.g., for 32-bit addressing) which need to be managed + carefully by a system. Because these sorts of flash don't + have a standardized software reset command, and because some + systems don't toggle the flash RESET# pin upon system reset + (if the pin even exists at all), there are systems which + cannot reboot properly if the flash is left in the "wrong" + state. This boolean flag can be used on such systems, to + denote the absence of a reliable reset mechanism. Example:drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c +16
-2@@ -2757,8 +2757,18 @@ static int spi_nor_init(struct spi_nor *nor)if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) { +/* +* If the RESET# pin isn't hooked up properly, or the system +* otherwise doesn't perform a reset command in the boot +* sequence, it's impossible to 100% protect against unexpected +* reboots (e.g., crashes). Warn the user (or hopefully, system +* designer) that this is bad. +*/ +WARN_ONCE (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET , +"enabling reset hack; may not recover from unexpected reboots\n" );set_4byte (nor, nor->info,1 ); + }return 0 ; }@@ -2781,7 +2791,8 @@ void spi_nor_restore(struct spi_nor *nor)/* restore the addressing mode */ if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES ) && + (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ))set_4byte (nor, nor->info,0 ); }EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL (spi_nor_restore);@@ -2911,6 +2922,9 @@ int spi_nor_scan(struct spi_nor *nor, const char *name, params.hwcaps.mask |=SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ; } +if (of_property_read_bool (np,"broken-flash-reset" )) + nor->flags |=SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ; +/* Some devices cannot do fast-read, no matter what DT tells us */ if (info->flags &SPI_NOR_NO_FR ) params.hwcaps.mask &= ~SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ;include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h +1
-0@@ -235,6 +235,7 @@ enum spi_nor_option_flags {SNOR_F_S3AN_ADDR_DEFAULT =BIT (3 ),SNOR_F_READY_XSR_RDY =BIT (4 ),SNOR_F_USE_CLSR =BIT (5 ), + SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET = BIT(6), };
Quoted 1 line
include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h enum spi_nor_option_flags { · line 241
Quoted 1 line
include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h +0
-0/**
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Quoted 82 lines · On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 11:05:11 +1000 NeilBrown <[email protected]> wrote:
Quoted 56 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 47 lines · On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700 Brian Norris <[email protected]>…
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Quoted 5 lines
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resendQuoted 4 lines
I'm fine with that.
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.
Thanks.
I can confirm that if I apply this patch, my system won't reboot properly (as expected), and if I then addbroken-flash-reset;to the jedec,spi-nor device, it starts functioning correctly again.
I don't like the pejorative "broken", and it also suggests that a thing used to work, but something happened to break it - this is not accurate.
I would prefer something like "reset-not-connected" which is an accurate description of the state of the hardware.I also think that having a
WARN_ONis an over-reaction. Certainly a warning could be appropriate, but just onepr_warn()should be enough. The "problem" is unlikely in practice, and loudly warning people that an asteroid might kill them isn't particularly helpful.
Quoted 5 lines
I genuinely think that if the system fails to reboot, then Linux is at fault. I accept that changing Linux to be completely robust might be more trouble than it is worth, but I don't accept that it is impossible.
But I don't intend to fight either of these battles.
Does that mean you're accepting this change? Brian, any comment on what Neil said?
To be honest, I hate being in the middle of this discussion without having been involved in the first decision to accept such workarounds. I keep thinking that making boards that do not have reset properly wired less likely to fail rebooting is a wise decision, but I also agree with Brian when he says we should inform people that their design is unreliable.
The main problem I see here, is that adding this prop won't help people figuring out what is wrong with their design, it will just help them workaround the problem when they find out, and it might already be to late to fix the HW design. But maybe it's not what we're trying to do here. Maybe we just want to warn users that rebooting such boards is a risky procedure.
______________________________________________________
Linux MTD discussion mailing list
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Quoted 94 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 82 lines · On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 11:05:11 +1000 NeilBrown <[email protected]> wrote:
Quoted 56 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 47 lines · On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700 Brian Norris <[email protected]>…
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Quoted 5 lines
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resendQuoted 4 lines
I'm fine with that.
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.
Thanks.
I can confirm that if I apply this patch, my system won't reboot properly (as expected), and if I then addbroken-flash-reset;to the jedec,spi-nor device, it starts functioning correctly again.
I don't like the pejorative "broken", and it also suggests that a thing used to work, but something happened to break it - this is not accurate.
I would prefer something like "reset-not-connected" which is an accurate description of the state of the hardware.I also think that having a
WARN_ONis an over-reaction. Certainly a warning could be appropriate, but just onepr_warn()should be enough. The "problem" is unlikely in practice, and loudly warning people that an asteroid might kill them isn't particularly helpful.Quoted 5 lines
I genuinely think that if the system fails to reboot, then Linux is at fault. I accept that changing Linux to be completely robust might be more trouble than it is worth, but I don't accept that it is impossible.
But I don't intend to fight either of these battles.
Does that mean you're accepting this change? Brian, any comment on what Neil said?
Quoted 6 lines
To be honest, I hate being in the middle of this discussion without having been involved in the first decision to accept such workarounds. I keep thinking that making boards that do not have reset properly wired less likely to fail rebooting is a wise decision, but I also agree with Brian when he says we should inform people that their design is unreliable.
Hiding the issue in most cases only leads to vendors making more such crippled boards and never learning.
Quoted 6 lines
The main problem I see here, is that adding this prop won't help people figuring out what is wrong with their design, it will just help them workaround the problem when they find out, and it might already be to late to fix the HW design. But maybe it's not what we're trying to do here. Maybe we just want to warn users that rebooting such boards is a risky procedure.
The thing is, this is not a workaround, it's just a way of hiding the problem because the problem does not go away completely. There are still scenarios in which the system will fail.
Signature · 6 lines
Best regards, Marek Vasut ______________________________________________________ Linux MTD discussion mailing list http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Quoted 102 lines · Marek Vasut
Quoted 94 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 82 lines · On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 11:05:11 +1000 NeilBrown <[email protected]> wrote:
Quoted 56 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 47 lines · On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700 Brian Norris <[email protected]>…
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Quoted 5 lines
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resendQuoted 4 lines
I'm fine with that.
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.
Thanks.
I can confirm that if I apply this patch, my system won't reboot properly (as expected), and if I then addbroken-flash-reset;to the jedec,spi-nor device, it starts functioning correctly again.
I don't like the pejorative "broken", and it also suggests that a thing used to work, but something happened to break it - this is not accurate.
I would prefer something like "reset-not-connected" which is an accurate description of the state of the hardware.I also think that having a
WARN_ONis an over-reaction. Certainly a warning could be appropriate, but just onepr_warn()should be enough. The "problem" is unlikely in practice, and loudly warning people that an asteroid might kill them isn't particularly helpful.Quoted 5 lines
I genuinely think that if the system fails to reboot, then Linux is at fault. I accept that changing Linux to be completely robust might be more trouble than it is worth, but I don't accept that it is impossible.
But I don't intend to fight either of these battles.
Does that mean you're accepting this change? Brian, any comment on what Neil said?
Quoted 6 lines
To be honest, I hate being in the middle of this discussion without having been involved in the first decision to accept such workarounds. I keep thinking that making boards that do not have reset properly wired less likely to fail rebooting is a wise decision, but I also agree with Brian when he says we should inform people that their design is unreliable.
Quoted 2 lines
Hiding the issue in most cases only leads to vendors making more such crippled boards and never learning.
And you think that printing a loud warning would be likely to get vendor to make fewer crappy boards?
I think it would just annoy people who aren't in a position to do anything about it.
NeilBrown
Quoted 8 lines
Quoted 7 lines
The main problem I see here, is that adding this prop won't help people figuring out what is wrong with their design, it will just help them workaround the problem when they find out, and it might already be to late to fix the HW design. But maybe it's not what we're trying to do here. Maybe we just want to warn users that rebooting such boards is a risky procedure.
Quoted 7 lines
The thing is, this is not a workaround, it's just a way of hiding the problem because the problem does not go away completely. There are still scenarios in which the system will fail.
Signature · 2 lines
Best regards, Marek Vasut
______________________________________________________
Linux MTD discussion mailing list
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Quoted 104 lines · NeilBrown
Quoted 102 lines · Marek Vasut
Quoted 100 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 82 lines · On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 11:05:11 +1000 NeilBrown <[email protected]> wrote:
Quoted 56 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 47 lines · On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700 Brian Norris <[email protected]>…
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Quoted 5 lines
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resendQuoted 4 lines
I'm fine with that.
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.
Thanks.
I can confirm that if I apply this patch, my system won't reboot properly (as expected), and if I then addbroken-flash-reset;to the jedec,spi-nor device, it starts functioning correctly again.
I don't like the pejorative "broken", and it also suggests that a thing used to work, but something happened to break it - this is not accurate.
I would prefer something like "reset-not-connected" which is an accurate description of the state of the hardware.I also think that having a
WARN_ONis an over-reaction. Certainly a warning could be appropriate, but just onepr_warn()should be enough. The "problem" is unlikely in practice, and loudly warning people that an asteroid might kill them isn't particularly helpful.Quoted 5 lines
I genuinely think that if the system fails to reboot, then Linux is at fault. I accept that changing Linux to be completely robust might be more trouble than it is worth, but I don't accept that it is impossible.
But I don't intend to fight either of these battles.
Does that mean you're accepting this change? Brian, any comment on what Neil said?
To be honest, I hate being in the middle of this discussion without having been involved in the first decision to accept such workarounds. I keep thinking that making boards that do not have reset properly wired less likely to fail rebooting is a wise decision, but I also agree with Brian when he says we should inform people that their design is unreliable.
Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 2 lines
Hiding the issue in most cases only leads to vendors making more such crippled boards and never learning.
And you think that printing a loud warning would be likely to get vendor to make fewer crappy boards?
I think it would just annoy people who aren't in a position to do anything about it.
If your hardware is broken and it cannot be properly worked around by software, what do you do ?
Signature · 6 lines
Best regards, Marek Vasut ______________________________________________________ Linux MTD discussion mailing list http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Hi Neil, Boris,
Quoted 13 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 11 lines · On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 11:05:11 +1000 NeilBrown <[email protected]> wrote:
Quoted 3 lines · Boris Brezillon
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.Thanks.
I can confirm that if I apply this patch, my system won't reboot properly (as expected), and if I then addbroken-flash-reset;
Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 7 lines
to the jedec,spi-nor device, it starts functioning correctly again.
I don't like the pejorative "broken", and it also suggests that a thing used to work, but something happened to break it - this is not accurate.
I would prefer something like "reset-not-connected" which is an accurate description of the state of the hardware.
One reason I didn't specifically say something like "not connected", is because IIUC it's actually *possible* to have a robust boot sequence without the RESET# pin -- e.g., if your boot ROM hardcoded a software reset command (just because it's not really standardized doesn't mean one can't do it).
Quoted 8 lines
Quoted 8 lines
I also think that having a
WARN_ONis an over-reaction. Certainly a warning could be appropriate, but just onepr_warn()should be enough. The "problem" is unlikely in practice, and loudly warning people that an asteroid might kill them isn't particularly helpful.I genuinely think that if the system fails to reboot, then Linux is at fault. I accept that changing Linux to be completely robust might be more trouble than it is worth, but I don't accept that it is impossible.
Did you read my last response on the original thread? In my understanding, there's always a way to, e.g., b0rk your exception handlers, etc., such that you cannot guarantee your software fallbacks will work. Normally, one would rely on a (hardware) watchdog to do your last resort reset for you, but if said reset cannot also reset your boot flash, then...you're stuck.
IOW, it's impossible.
Is that not an accurate description?
Quoted 5 lines
Quoted 1 line
But I don't intend to fight either of these battles.
Does that mean you're accepting this change? Brian, any comment on what Neil said?
Quoted 8 lines
To be honest, I hate being in the middle of this discussion without having been involved in the first decision to accept such workarounds. I keep thinking that making boards that do not have reset properly wired less likely to fail rebooting is a wise decision, but I also agree with Brian when he says we should inform people that their design is unreliable.
The main problem I see here, is that adding this prop won't help people figuring out what is wrong with their design, it will just help them
How else would we help someone figure out what's wrong with their design? My best attempt is to make it quite obvious, as long as they're using vanilla mainline: if their system hangs on reboot (without this property), then it's probably a bad design.
And if instead, someone stuck in this DT property already, the loud warning might suggest the reader look at the DT binding doc or code comments, where I elaborated.
Quoted 4 lines
workaround the problem when they find out, and it might already be to late to fix the HW design. But maybe it's not what we're trying to do here. Maybe we just want to warn users that rebooting such boards is a risky procedure.
Brian
______________________________________________________
Linux MTD discussion mailing list
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Quoted 24 lines · Brian Norris
Hi Neil, Boris,
Quoted 13 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 11 lines · On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 11:05:11 +1000 NeilBrown <[email protected]> wrote:
Quoted 3 lines · Boris Brezillon
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.Thanks.
I can confirm that if I apply this patch, my system won't reboot properly (as expected), and if I then addbroken-flash-reset;Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 7 lines
to the jedec,spi-nor device, it starts functioning correctly again.
I don't like the pejorative "broken", and it also suggests that a thing used to work, but something happened to break it - this is not accurate.
I would prefer something like "reset-not-connected" which is an accurate description of the state of the hardware.
Quoted 5 lines
One reason I didn't specifically say something like "not connected", is because IIUC it's actually *possible* to have a robust boot sequence without the RESET# pin -- e.g., if your boot ROM hardcoded a software reset command (just because it's not really standardized doesn't mean one can't do it).
Yes, if we could change the hardware (ROM is hardware) there are various things we could do to improve reliability.
What we want to do in devicetree is to describe the (unchangeable) hardware so that Linux can work with it as well as possible.
If I have hardware that doesn't reset the flash on reset, then labeling it
doesnt-reset-flash-on-system-reset
is perfectly appropriate. Labeling it "broken" is pejorative and unhelpful.
Quoted 10 lines
Quoted 9 lines
Quoted 9 lines
I also think that having a
WARN_ONis an over-reaction. Certainly a warning could be appropriate, but just onepr_warn()should be enough. The "problem" is unlikely in practice, and loudly warning people that an asteroid might kill them isn't particularly helpful.I genuinely think that if the system fails to reboot, then Linux is at fault. I accept that changing Linux to be completely robust might be more trouble than it is worth, but I don't accept that it is impossible.
Quoted 8 lines
Did you read my last response on the original thread? In my understanding, there's always a way to, e.g., b0rk your exception handlers, etc., such that you cannot guarantee your software fallbacks will work. Normally, one would rely on a (hardware) watchdog to do your last resort reset for you, but if said reset cannot also reset your boot flash, then...you're stuck.
IOW, it's impossible.
I cannot say for certain if I read your last response, but I've read quite a few opinions while researching this and think I have a good handle on the details.
I agree that if you want high reliability then you need a properly configured hardware watchdog. Not everyone needs that and not everyone bothers with a watchdog.
If you do want a watchdog, you would (obviously?) make sure to buy hardware that supports a watchdog.
But if you choose to buy hardware that doesn't have a watchdog, then it isn't "broken", it simply doesn't have a watchdog and so can be expected to freeze if something particularly bad happens.
Linux could get almost arbitrarily sophisticated in ensuring that the panic-handling code was fully robust and was stored in write-protected memory, and so be able to reboot cleanly after any panic.
There will, of course, be situations where it cannot recover (it might not panic...), but the fact that it needs to reset the flash as part of recovery shouldn't increase the set of such situations noticeably.
Quoted 17 lines
Is that not an accurate description?
Quoted 5 lines
Quoted 1 line
But I don't intend to fight either of these battles.
Does that mean you're accepting this change? Brian, any comment on what Neil said?
Quoted 8 lines
To be honest, I hate being in the middle of this discussion without having been involved in the first decision to accept such workarounds. I keep thinking that making boards that do not have reset properly wired less likely to fail rebooting is a wise decision, but I also agree with Brian when he says we should inform people that their design is unreliable.
The main problem I see here, is that adding this prop won't help people figuring out what is wrong with their design, it will just help them
Quoted 4 lines
How else would we help someone figure out what's wrong with their design? My best attempt is to make it quite obvious, as long as they're using vanilla mainline: if their system hangs on reboot (without this property), then it's probably a bad design.
Is it really our job to help people figure out what's wrong with their designs (unless they ask)?
I see it as our job to make Linux work reliably.
If a system hangs on reboot, but we can fix reboot so that it doesn't, I think we should. Clearly you disagree.
To clearly state my position:
1/ A clean reboot should reboot cleanly, resetting any hardware that
might need resetting.
2/ an unclean reboot is never guaranteed (though "best effort" is still
a good goal). If you need guaranteed unclean reboots, you need a properly configured hardware watchdog.
My hardware doesn't have a properly configured hardware watchdog, and I don't expect it to handle an unclean reboot. I do expect it to handle a clean reboot. I'd rather not be told the hardware is "broken" because it isn't - it simply doesn't have watchdog support (it doesn't have hardware floating point either - that doesn't make it 'broken').
Thanks,
NeilBrown
Quoted 11 lines
And if instead, someone stuck in this DT property already, the loud warning might suggest the reader look at the DT binding doc or code comments, where I elaborated.
Quoted 4 lines
workaround the problem when they find out, and it might already be to late to fix the HW design. But maybe it's not what we're trying to do here. Maybe we just want to warn users that rebooting such boards is a risky procedure.
Brian
______________________________________________________
Linux MTD discussion mailing list
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Rob Herring
maintainerQuoted 24 lines · Brian Norris
Hi Neil, Boris,
Quoted 13 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 11 lines · On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 11:05:11 +1000 NeilBrown <[email protected]> wrote:
Quoted 3 lines · Boris Brezillon
On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.Thanks.
I can confirm that if I apply this patch, my system won't reboot properly (as expected), and if I then addbroken-flash-reset;Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 7 lines
to the jedec,spi-nor device, it starts functioning correctly again.
I don't like the pejorative "broken", and it also suggests that a thing used to work, but something happened to break it - this is not accurate.
I would prefer something like "reset-not-connected" which is an accurate description of the state of the hardware.
Quoted 5 lines
One reason I didn't specifically say something like "not connected", is because IIUC it's actually *possible* to have a robust boot sequence without the RESET# pin -- e.g., if your boot ROM hardcoded a software reset command (just because it's not really standardized doesn't mean one can't do it).
Based on that, then it sounds like you need a specific compatible string so you too can know how to s/w reset the device.
I guess you are assuming a bootloader didn't leave the flash in an unknown addressing state?
Rob
______________________________________________________
Linux MTD discussion mailing list
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Quoted 9 lines · Rob Herring
Quoted 5 lines · Brian Norris
One reason I didn't specifically say something like "not connected", is because IIUC it's actually *possible* to have a robust boot sequence without the RESET# pin -- e.g., if your boot ROM hardcoded a software reset command (just because it's not really standardized doesn't mean one can't do it).
Based on that, then it sounds like you need a specific compatible string so you too can know how to s/w reset the device.
We do also support compatible properties for these chips, where needed. But I don't think that's really needed.
Quoted 2 lines
I guess you are assuming a bootloader didn't leave the flash in an unknown addressing state?
For some of these address states (at least, 3-byte vs. 4-byte addressing), we can still identify the device independently; the READ ID command works in either mode.
The problem is that a boot ROM is rarely as complex as a Linux driver and probably can't be updated. And they usually do stupid things anyway. So *that's* where you need a well-defined entry state for the flash.
Brian
______________________________________________________
Linux MTD discussion mailing list
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-mtd/
Quoted 85 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 82 lines · On Tue, 31 Jul 2018 11:05:11 +1000 NeilBrown <[email protected]> wrote:
Quoted 56 lines · Boris Brezillon
Quoted 47 lines · On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700 Brian Norris <[email protected]>…
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Quoted 5 lines
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resendQuoted 4 lines
I'm fine with that.
I'll leave Neil some time to review/test/comment on the patch before queuing it, but it looks good to me.
Thanks.
I can confirm that if I apply this patch, my system won't reboot properly (as expected), and if I then addbroken-flash-reset;to the jedec,spi-nor device, it starts functioning correctly again.
I don't like the pejorative "broken", and it also suggests that a thing used to work, but something happened to break it - this is not accurate.
I would prefer something like "reset-not-connected" which is an accurate description of the state of the hardware.I also think that having a
WARN_ONis an over-reaction. Certainly a warning could be appropriate, but just onepr_warn()should be enough. The "problem" is unlikely in practice, and loudly warning people that an asteroid might kill them isn't particularly helpful.
Quoted 8 lines
Quoted 5 lines
I genuinely think that if the system fails to reboot, then Linux is at fault. I accept that changing Linux to be completely robust might be more trouble than it is worth, but I don't accept that it is impossible.
But I don't intend to fight either of these battles.
Does that mean you're accepting this change? Brian, any comment on what Neil said?
I don't see that it is my place to accept or reject the change. I don't particularly like it, but I hope to never look at this code against so you shouldn't put to much weight on what I like.
Quoted 13 lines
To be honest, I hate being in the middle of this discussion without having been involved in the first decision to accept such workarounds. I keep thinking that making boards that do not have reset properly wired less likely to fail rebooting is a wise decision, but I also agree with Brian when he says we should inform people that their design is unreliable.
The main problem I see here, is that adding this prop won't help people figuring out what is wrong with their design, it will just help them workaround the problem when they find out, and it might already be to late to fix the HW design. But maybe it's not what we're trying to do here. Maybe we just want to warn users that rebooting such boards is a risky procedure.
Simply rebooting the board is not a risky procedure.
The risk is that if something causes Linux to "crash", it may not reboot properly.
Thanks,
NeilBrown
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Boris Brezillon
AppliedQuoted 43 lines · On Fri, 27 Jul 2018 11:33:13 -0700 Brian Norris <[email protected]>…
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Quoted 5 lines
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>
Queued to spi-nor/next.
Thanks,
Boris
Quoted 79 lines
---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resend--- .../devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt | 9 +++++++++ drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c | 18 ++++++++++++++++-- include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h | 1 + 3 files changed, 26 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)Documentation/devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt +9
-0@@ -69,6 +69,15 @@ Optional properties: all chips and support for it can not be detected at runtime. Refer to your chips' datasheet to check if this is supported by your chip. +- broken-flash-reset : Some flash devices utilize stateful addressing modes + (e.g., for 32-bit addressing) which need to be managed + carefully by a system. Because these sorts of flash don't + have a standardized software reset command, and because some + systems don't toggle the flash RESET# pin upon system reset + (if the pin even exists at all), there are systems which + cannot reboot properly if the flash is left in the "wrong" + state. This boolean flag can be used on such systems, to + denote the absence of a reliable reset mechanism. Example:drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c +16
-2@@ -2757,8 +2757,18 @@ static int spi_nor_init(struct spi_nor *nor)if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) { +/* +* If the RESET# pin isn't hooked up properly, or the system +* otherwise doesn't perform a reset command in the boot +* sequence, it's impossible to 100% protect against unexpected +* reboots (e.g., crashes). Warn the user (or hopefully, system +* designer) that this is bad. +*/ +WARN_ONCE (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET , +"enabling reset hack; may not recover from unexpected reboots\n" );set_4byte (nor, nor->info,1 ); + }return 0 ; }@@ -2781,7 +2791,8 @@ void spi_nor_restore(struct spi_nor *nor)/* restore the addressing mode */ if ((nor->addr_width ==4 ) && (JEDEC_MFR (nor->info) !=SNOR_MFR_SPANSION ) && - !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES )) + !(nor->info->flags &SPI_NOR_4B_OPCODES ) && + (nor->flags &SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ))set_4byte (nor, nor->info,0 ); }EXPORT_SYMBOL_GPL (spi_nor_restore);@@ -2911,6 +2922,9 @@ int spi_nor_scan(struct spi_nor *nor, const char *name, params.hwcaps.mask |=SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ; } +if (of_property_read_bool (np,"broken-flash-reset" )) + nor->flags |=SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET ; +/* Some devices cannot do fast-read, no matter what DT tells us */ if (info->flags &SPI_NOR_NO_FR ) params.hwcaps.mask &= ~SNOR_HWCAPS_READ_FAST ;include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h +0
-0
include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h enum spi_nor_option_flags { · line 241
Quoted 7 lines
include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h +1
-0@@ -235,6 +235,7 @@ enum spi_nor_option_flags {SNOR_F_S3AN_ADDR_DEFAULT =BIT (3 ),SNOR_F_READY_XSR_RDY =BIT (4 ),SNOR_F_USE_CLSR =BIT (5 ), + SNOR_F_BROKEN_RESET = BIT(6), };/**
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Quoted 47 lines · Brian Norris
Commit
59b356ffd0b0("mtd: m25p80: restore the status of SPI flash when exiting") is the latest from a long history of attempts to add reboot handling to handle stateful addressing modes on SPI flash. Some prior mostly-related discussions:http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2013-March/046343.html
[PATCH 1/3] mtd: m25p80: utilize dedicated 4-byte addressing commandshttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/barebox/2014-September/020682.html
[RFC] MTD m25p80 3-byte addressing and boot problemhttp://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2015-February/057683.html
[PATCH 2/2] m25p80: if supported put chip to deep power down if not usedPreviously, attempts to add reboot-time software reset handling were rejected, but the latest attempt was not.
Quick summary of the problem:
Some systems (e.g., boot ROM or bootloader) assume that they can read initial boot code from their SPI flash using 3-byte addressing. If the flash is left in 4-byte mode after reset, these systems won't boot. The above patch provided a shutdown/remove hook to attempt to reset the addressing mode before we reboot. Notably, this patch misses out on huge classes of unexpected reboots (e.g., crashes, watchdog resets).Unfortunately, it is essentially impossible to solve this problem 100%:
if your system doesn't know how to reset the SPI flash to power-on defaults at initialization time, no amount of software can really rescue you -- there will always be a chance of some unexpected reset that leaves your flash in an addressing mode that your boot sequence didn't expect.While it is not directly harmful to perform hacks like the aforementioned commit on all 4-byte addressing flash, a properly-designed system should not need the hack -- and in fact, providing this hack may mask the fact that a given system is indeed broken. So this patch attempts to apply this unsound hack more narrowly, providing a strong suggestion to developers and system designers that this is truly a hack. With luck, system designers can catch their errors early on in their development cycle, rather than applying this hack long term. But apparently enough systems are out in the wild that we still have to provide this hack.
Document a new device tree property to denote systems that do not have a proper hardware (or software) reset mechanism, and apply the hack (with a loud warning) only in this case.
Quoted 5 lines
Signed-off-by Brian Norris <[email protected]>---
Note that I intentionall didn't split the documentation patch. It seems clearer to do these together IMO, but if it's *really* important to someone...I can resend
How is it cleaner in this specific case?
The reason to separate the binding besides that I only review the binding part (generally) is so the DT only repository we generate[1] has a history and commit msgs that make sense.
That being said, if there are no other changes I'm not going to ask for it to be split.
Quoted 5 lines
--- .../devicetree/bindings/mtd/jedec,spi-nor.txt | 9 +++++++++ drivers/mtd/spi-nor/spi-nor.c | 18 ++++++++++++++++-- include/linux/mtd/spi-nor.h | 1 + 3 files changed, 26 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
[1] https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/devicetree/devicetree-rebasing.git/
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