CompactFlash and HD unhappy together on the same IDE channel

My PATA hard disk is crippled by CRC errors when it's on the same cable as a 1GB SanDisk Ultra II CompactFlash card in CF to IDE adaptor. Any ideas why?

By swapping around components, I've established that the problem is unlikely due to the cable (which is 50cm long 80-wire), hard disk or controller. When I swap to another, slower CF card (one that only supports PIO rather than MWDMA), the error goes away and the hard disk operates happily at UDMA/33.

No errors are reported for the CF card I/O.

The adaptor card is unbranded, model CF-IDE40 V.A1. It's a double-sided type, but I'm only using one of the two CF sockets.

The spec sheet says

* Accord with: CF spec Ver2.0 and IDE/ATA-33 spec.
* Standard IDE interface: true-IDE mode, support DMA-33 transfer mode

I see the errors both with the old IDE code in 2.6.18 and with libata in 2.6.22

cheers,

Malcolm

Signature · 162 lines

Here are the relevant dmesg lines:

ata_piix 0000:00:1f.1: version 2.11
PCI: Enabling device 0000:00:1f.1 (0005 -> 0007)
ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:00:1f.1[A] -> Link [LNKC] -> GSI 11 (level, low) -> IRQ
 11
PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.1 to 64
scsi0 : ata_piix
scsi1 : ata_piix
ata1: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x000101f0 ctl 0x000103f6 bmdma 0x0001ffa0 irq 14
ata2: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x00010170 ctl 0x00010376 bmdma 0x0001ffa8 irq 15
ata1.00: CFA: SanDisk SDCFH-1024, HDX 4.07, max MWDMA2
ata1.00: 2001888 sectors, multi 0: LBA
ata1.01: ATA-7: SAMSUNG HD400LD, WQ100-14, max UDMA/100
ata1.01: 781422768 sectors, multi 0: LBA48
ata1.01: limited to UDMA/33 due to 40-wire cable
ata1.00: configured for MWDMA2
ata1.01: configured for UDMA/33
ata2.00: ATAPI: LG CD-ROM CRN-8245B, 1.18, max UDMA/33
ata2.00: configured for UDMA/33
scsi 0:0:0:0: Direct-Access     ATA      SanDisk SDCFH-10 HDX  PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
scsi 0:0:1:0: Direct-Access     ATA      SAMSUNG HD400LD  WQ10 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
scsi 1:0:0:0: CD-ROM            LG       CD-ROM CRN-8245B 1.18 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 2001888 512-byte hardware sectors (1025 MB)
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write cache: disabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 2001888 512-byte hardware sectors (1025 MB)
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write cache: disabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
 sda: sda1
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI removable disk
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] 781422768 512-byte hardware sectors (400088 MB)
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] 781422768 512-byte hardware sectors (400088 MB)
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
 sdb:<3>ata1.01: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x2
ata1.01: (BMDMA stat 0x25)
ata1.01: cmd c8/00:08:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/f0 tag 0 cdb 0x0 data 4096 in
         res 51/84:00:07:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/f0 Emask 0x10 (ATA bus error)
ata1: soft resetting port

[subsequently ata1.01 is downrated to UDMA/25 and finally PIO4]

 # hdparm -I /dev/sda

/dev/sda:

CompactFlash ATA device, with removable media
        Model Number:       SanDisk SDCFH-1024
        Serial Number:      004123D2804C2249
        Firmware Revision:  HDX 4.07
Standards:
        Supported: 4
        Likely used: 4
Configuration:
        Logical         max     current
        cylinders       1986    1986
        heads           16      16
        sectors/track   63      63
        --
        CHS current addressable sectors:    2001888
        LBA    user addressable sectors:    2001888
        device size with M = 1024*1024:         977 MBytes
        device size with M = 1000*1000:        1024 MBytes (1 GB)
Capabilities:
        LBA, IORDY(may be)(cannot be disabled)
        Standby timer values: spec'd by Vendor
        R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 4   Current = 0
        DMA: mdma0 mdma1 *mdma2
             Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
        PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
             Cycle time: no flow control=120ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
        Enabled Supported:
           *    CFA feature set

 # hdparm -I /dev/sdb

/dev/sdb:

ATA device, with non-removable media
        Model Number:       SAMSUNG HD400LD
        Serial Number:      S0AXJ1MP308674
        Firmware Revision:  WQ100-14
Standards:
        Used: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 4a
        Supported: 7 6 5 4
Configuration:
        Logical         max     current
        cylinders       16383   16383
        heads           16      16
        sectors/track   63      63
        --
        CHS current addressable sectors:   16514064
        LBA    user addressable sectors:  268435455
        LBA48  user addressable sectors:  781422768
        device size with M = 1024*1024:      381554 MBytes
        device size with M = 1000*1000:      400088 MBytes (400 GB)
Capabilities:
        LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
        Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, no device specific 
minimum
        R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16  Current = ?
        Recommended acoustic management value: 254, current value: 254
        DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 *udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5
             Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
        PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
             Cycle time: no flow control=240ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
        Enabled Supported:
           *    SMART feature set
                Security Mode feature set
           *    Power Management feature set
           *    Write cache
           *    Look-ahead
           *    Host Protected Area feature set
           *    WRITE_BUFFER command
           *    READ_BUFFER command
           *    NOP cmd
           *    DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
                Power-Up In Standby feature set
                SET_FEATURES required to spinup after power up
                SET_MAX security extension
           *    Automatic Acoustic Management feature set
           *    48-bit Address feature set
           *    Device Configuration Overlay feature set
           *    Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
           *    FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
           *    SMART error logging
           *    SMART self-test
                Media Card Pass-Through
           *    General Purpose Logging feature set
           *    SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
           *    SCT Long Sector Access (AC1)
           *    SCT LBA Segment Access (AC2)
           *    SCT Error Recovery Control (AC3)
           *    SCT Features Control (AC4)
           *    SCT Data Tables (AC5)
Security:
        Master password revision code = 65534
                supported
        not     enabled
        not     locked
        not     frozen
        not     expired: security count
                supported: enhanced erase
        228min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 228min for ENHANCED SECURITY 
ERASE UNIT.
HW reset results:
        CBLID- above Vih
        Device num = 1 determined by CSEL
Checksum: correct
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ide" in
the body of a message to [email protected]
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

My PATA hard disk is crippled by CRC errors when it's on the same cable as a 1GB SanDisk Ultra II CompactFlash card in CF to IDE adaptor. Any ideas why?

My PATA hard disk is crippled by CRC errors when it's on the same cable as a 1GB SanDisk Ultra II CompactFlash card in CF to IDE adaptor. Any ideas why?

By swapping around components, I've established that the problem is unlikely due to the cable (which is 50cm long 80-wire), hard disk or controller. When I swap to another, slower CF card (one that only supports PIO rather than MWDMA), the error goes away and the hard disk operates happily at UDMA/33.

ata_piix 0000:00:1f.1: version 2.11
PCI: Enabling device 0000:00:1f.1 (0005 -> 0007)
ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:00:1f.1[A] -> Link [LNKC] -> GSI 11 (level, low) -> IRQ
11
PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.1 to 64
scsi0 : ata_piix
scsi1 : ata_piix
ata1: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x000101f0 ctl 0x000103f6 bmdma 0x0001ffa0 irq 14
ata2: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x00010170 ctl 0x00010376 bmdma 0x0001ffa8 irq 15 ata1.00: CFA: SanDisk SDCFH-1024, HDX 4.07, max MWDMA2

ata1.00: 2001888 sectors, multi 0: LBA ata1.01: ATA-7: SAMSUNG HD400LD, WQ100-14, max UDMA/100 ata1.01: 781422768 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 ata1.01: limited to UDMA/33 due to 40-wire cable ata1.00: configured for MWDMA2
ata1.01: configured for UDMA/33
ata2.00: ATAPI: LG CD-ROM CRN-8245B, 1.18, max UDMA/33 ata2.00: configured for UDMA/33

Quoted 1 line · Malcolm Gillies

By swapping around components, I've established that the problem is unlikely due to the cable (which is 50cm long 80-wire), hard disk or controller. When I swap to another, slower CF card (one that only supports PIO rather than MWDMA), the error goes away and the hard disk operates happily at UDMA/33.

..

Quoted 7 lines

ata1.00: CFA: SanDisk SDCFH-1024, HDX 4.07, max MWDMA2 ata1.00: 2001888 sectors, multi 0: LBA ata1.01: ATA-7: SAMSUNG HD400LD, WQ100-14, max UDMA/100 ata1.01: 781422768 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 ata1.01: limited to UDMA/33 due to 40-wire cable ata1.00: configured for MWDMA2
ata1.01: configured for UDMA/33

..
The fastest DMA speed reported for the CF is MWDMA2, which is considerably slower than UDMA/33. When two devices share a cable, normally both must be limited to the speed of the slower device, which is MWDMA2 in this case.

Both devices report being capable of 120ns cycle times for DMA, but UDMA double-clocks those cycles, something that is incompatible with non-UDMA devices.

I don't think we can safely assume that UDMA can co-operate with non-UDMA
on the same cable. In this case, it might be causing the CF device to falsely detect control cycles.

Quoted 19 lines · Mark Lord

Quoted 1 line · Malcolm Gillies

By swapping around components, I've established that the problem is unlikely due to the cable (which is 50cm long 80-wire), hard disk or controller. When I swap to another, slower CF card (one that only supports PIO rather than MWDMA), the error goes away and the hard disk operates happily at UDMA/33.

..

Quoted 7 lines

ata1.00: CFA: SanDisk SDCFH-1024, HDX 4.07, max MWDMA2 ata1.00: 2001888 sectors, multi 0: LBA ata1.01: ATA-7: SAMSUNG HD400LD, WQ100-14, max UDMA/100 ata1.01: 781422768 sectors, multi 0: LBA48 ata1.01: limited to UDMA/33 due to 40-wire cable ata1.00: configured for MWDMA2
ata1.01: configured for UDMA/33

..
The fastest DMA speed reported for the CF is MWDMA2, which is considerably slower than UDMA/33. When two devices share a cable, normally both must be limited to the speed of the slower device, which is MWDMA2 in this case.

Both devices report being capable of 120ns cycle times for DMA, but UDMA double-clocks those cycles, something that is incompatible with non-UDMA devices.

Quoted 2 lines

I don't think we can safely assume that UDMA can co-operate with non-UDMA
on the same cable. In this case, it might be causing the CF device to falsely detect control cycles.

The mystery for me is that

1) there are no errors reported for the CF device, only for the UDMA HD

2) the HD runs error-free at UDMA/33 when I use a different, PIO-only CF card but otherwise the same cabling, adaptor etc.

Quoted 1 line · Malcolm Gillies

2) the HD runs error-free at UDMA/33 when I use a different, PIO-only CF card but otherwise the same cabling, adaptor etc.

It would be useful to see the boot log for this scenario.
In particular, I'm curious what timings get chosen for the two devices. But since that CF card cannot do DMA, it should not respond at all to any HD DMA cycles, even if the timing is too fast for it's decoders to work properly.

I don't think we can safely assume that UDMA can co-operate with non-UDMA on the same cable. In this case, it might be causing the CF device to falsely detect control cycles.

Sounds to me like the usual case of people putting CF convertors onto spec compliant cables and ending up with electrical problems. If you stick additional connectors, wires and plugs onto the cable it goes out of spec.

My PATA hard disk is crippled by CRC errors when it's on the same cable as a 1GB SanDisk Ultra II CompactFlash card in CF to IDE adaptor. Any ideas why?

By swapping around components, I've established that the problem is unlikely due to the cable (which is 50cm long 80-wire), hard disk or controller. When I swap to another, slower CF card (one that only supports PIO rather than MWDMA), the error goes away and the hard disk operates happily at UDMA/33.

No errors are reported for the CF card I/O.

The adaptor card is unbranded, model CF-IDE40 V.A1. It's a double-sided type, but I'm only using one of the two CF sockets.

The spec sheet says

* Accord with: CF spec Ver2.0 and IDE/ATA-33 spec.
* Standard IDE interface: true-IDE mode, support DMA-33 transfer mode

I see the errors both with the old IDE code in 2.6.18 and with libata in 2.6.22

cheers,

Malcolm

Signature · 156 lines

Here are the relevant dmesg lines:

ata_piix 0000:00:1f.1: version 2.11
PCI: Enabling device 0000:00:1f.1 (0005 -> 0007)
ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:00:1f.1[A] -> Link [LNKC] -> GSI 11 (level, low) -> IRQ
 11
PCI: Setting latency timer of device 0000:00:1f.1 to 64
scsi0 : ata_piix
scsi1 : ata_piix
ata1: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x000101f0 ctl 0x000103f6 bmdma 0x0001ffa0 irq 14
ata2: PATA max UDMA/100 cmd 0x00010170 ctl 0x00010376 bmdma 0x0001ffa8 irq 15
ata1.00: CFA: SanDisk SDCFH-1024, HDX 4.07, max MWDMA2
ata1.00: 2001888 sectors, multi 0: LBA
ata1.01: ATA-7: SAMSUNG HD400LD, WQ100-14, max UDMA/100
ata1.01: 781422768 sectors, multi 0: LBA48
ata1.01: limited to UDMA/33 due to 40-wire cable
ata1.00: configured for MWDMA2
ata1.01: configured for UDMA/33
ata2.00: ATAPI: LG CD-ROM CRN-8245B, 1.18, max UDMA/33
ata2.00: configured for UDMA/33
scsi 0:0:0:0: Direct-Access     ATA      SanDisk SDCFH-10 HDX  PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
scsi 0:0:1:0: Direct-Access     ATA      SAMSUNG HD400LD  WQ10 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
scsi 1:0:0:0: CD-ROM            LG       CD-ROM CRN-8245B 1.18 PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 2001888 512-byte hardware sectors (1025 MB)
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write cache: disabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 2001888 512-byte hardware sectors (1025 MB)
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write cache: disabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
 sda: sda1
sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI removable disk
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] 781422768 512-byte hardware sectors (400088 MB)
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] 781422768 512-byte hardware sectors (400088 MB)
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00
sd 0:0:1:0: [sdb] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
 sdb:<3>ata1.01: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x2
ata1.01: (BMDMA stat 0x25)
ata1.01: cmd c8/00:08:00:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/f0 tag 0 cdb 0x0 data 4096 in
         res 51/84:00:07:00:00/00:00:00:00:00/f0 Emask 0x10 (ATA bus error)
ata1: soft resetting port

[subsequently ata1.01 is downrated to UDMA/25 and finally PIO4]

 # hdparm -I /dev/sda

/dev/sda:

CompactFlash ATA device, with removable media
        Model Number:       SanDisk SDCFH-1024
        Serial Number:      004123D2804C2249
        Firmware Revision:  HDX 4.07
Standards:
        Supported: 4
        Likely used: 4
Configuration:
        Logical         max     current
        cylinders       1986    1986
        heads           16      16
        sectors/track   63      63
        --
        CHS current addressable sectors:    2001888
        LBA    user addressable sectors:    2001888
        device size with M = 1024*1024:         977 MBytes
        device size with M = 1000*1000:        1024 MBytes (1 GB)
Capabilities:
        LBA, IORDY(may be)(cannot be disabled)
        Standby timer values: spec'd by Vendor
        R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 4   Current = 0
        DMA: mdma0 mdma1 *mdma2
             Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
        PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
             Cycle time: no flow control=120ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
        Enabled Supported:
           *    CFA feature set

 # hdparm -I /dev/sdb

/dev/sdb:

ATA device, with non-removable media
        Model Number:       SAMSUNG HD400LD
        Serial Number:      S0AXJ1MP308674
        Firmware Revision:  WQ100-14
Standards:
        Used: ATA/ATAPI-7 T13 1532D revision 4a
        Supported: 7 6 5 4
Configuration:
        Logical         max     current
        cylinders       16383   16383
        heads           16      16
        sectors/track   63      63
        --
        CHS current addressable sectors:   16514064
        LBA    user addressable sectors:  268435455
        LBA48  user addressable sectors:  781422768
        device size with M = 1024*1024:      381554 MBytes
        device size with M = 1000*1000:      400088 MBytes (400 GB)
Capabilities:
        LBA, IORDY(can be disabled)
        Standby timer values: spec'd by Standard, no device specific minimum
        R/W multiple sector transfer: Max = 16  Current = ?
        Recommended acoustic management value: 254, current value: 254
        DMA: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 *udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 udma5
             Cycle time: min=120ns recommended=120ns
        PIO: pio0 pio1 pio2 pio3 pio4
             Cycle time: no flow control=240ns  IORDY flow control=120ns
Commands/features:
        Enabled Supported:
           *    SMART feature set
                Security Mode feature set
           *    Power Management feature set
           *    Write cache
           *    Look-ahead
           *    Host Protected Area feature set
           *    WRITE_BUFFER command
           *    READ_BUFFER command
           *    NOP cmd
           *    DOWNLOAD_MICROCODE
                Power-Up In Standby feature set
                SET_FEATURES required to spinup after power up
                SET_MAX security extension
           *    Automatic Acoustic Management feature set
           *    48-bit Address feature set
           *    Device Configuration Overlay feature set
           *    Mandatory FLUSH_CACHE
           *    FLUSH_CACHE_EXT
           *    SMART error logging
           *    SMART self-test
                Media Card Pass-Through
           *    General Purpose Logging feature set
           *    SMART Command Transport (SCT) feature set
           *    SCT Long Sector Access (AC1)
           *    SCT LBA Segment Access (AC2)
           *    SCT Error Recovery Control (AC3)
           *    SCT Features Control (AC4)
           *    SCT Data Tables (AC5)
Security:
        Master password revision code = 65534
                supported
        not     enabled
        not     locked
        not     frozen
        not     expired: security count
                supported: enhanced erase
        228min for SECURITY ERASE UNIT. 228min for ENHANCED SECURITY ERASE UNIT.
HW reset results:
        CBLID- above Vih
        Device num = 1 determined by CSEL
Checksum: correct 

I've acquired a new CF card that is capable of UDMA2, and with the same connectors, wiring and adaptor (i.e. I popped out the MWDMA card and inserted the UDMA one), I can now boot and read data on both devices without error at reasonable speeds.

Quoted 1 line

I've acquired a new CF card that is capable of UDMA2, and with the same connectors, wiring and adaptor (i.e. I popped out the MWDMA card and inserted the UDMA one), I can now boot and read data on both devices without error at reasonable speeds.

Fascinating. Does point more to a driver funny you are right. At the moment I'm at a loss to guess what

Quoted 1 line

I've acquired a new CF card that is capable of UDMA2, and with the same connectors, wiring and adaptor (i.e. I popped out the MWDMA card and inserted the UDMA one), I can now boot and read data on both devices without error at reasonable speeds.

Fascinating. Does point more to a driver funny you are right. At the moment I'm at a loss to guess what

The solution is beginning to look more and more obvious: default to not use MDMA modes for CF devices at boot. And eventually provide a sysfs or libata parameter (or support/snoop SET_XFER_MODE) to change the mode later.

Quoted 3 lines

The solution is beginning to look more and more obvious: default to not use MDMA modes for CF devices at boot. And eventually provide a sysfs or libata parameter (or support/snoop SET_XFER_MODE) to change the mode later.

I strongly disagree.

We need to understand *why*, we need to fix any actual bugs we have. Lots and lots of people have no problems here. The people with problems and pure PATA all seem to have piix chips.

But when we see a CF card on a *SATA* controller, we *know* there's a bridge chip in there someplace, and we know that the common bridges don't do MWDMA.