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Device naming and raid1

DISCUSSION Tony Coffman 5 participants 8 messages Aug 26, 2008 – Aug 27, 2008 MD RAID

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#0 lore raw

I've have a Centos5 box running a software raid-1 set on a pair of SATA drives.

The SATA controller or driver has a flaw.
Every 150 days or so, one of the two drives will experience errors and fail.

Subsequent tests always show the drive and cable to be ok. We bought a couple of replacement drives before we figured that out :-(

On the last event this weekend, I went searching for a way to get the raid back online with no host downtime. I found the technique that deletes the drive and then brings it back online with a bus scan using the /sys filesystem delete and rescan entities.

I didn't realize that you could also perform a rescan on a single LUN. I'll have to use that next time.

My question - since I've done a delete/rescan bus operation, my device name and major,minor numbers have changed.

Original
[0:0:0:0] disk ATA ST3250410AS 3.AA /dev/sdc

Current
[0:0:0:0] disk ATA ST3250410AS 3.AA /dev/sdc

If I re-add the device to the raid set using the new device name, will it cause any problems on the next boot?

The drive appears to be fine. I can read all blocks with no errors. Partition table looks ok, etc..

In the future if I rescan just the single LUN, I'm pretty sure I won't run into again this but I'd like to avoid an outage on this event if possible.

Thanks and regards,
--Tony

#1 lore raw
Quoted 8 lines

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:linux-raid- [email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Coffman
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Device naming and raid1

I've have a Centos5 box running a software raid-1 set on a pair of

SATA

Quoted 7 lines

drives.

The SATA controller or driver has a flaw.
Every 150 days or so, one of the two drives will experience errors and fail.

Subsequent tests always show the drive and cable to be ok. We bought

a

Quoted 29 lines

couple of replacement drives before we figured that out :-(

On the last event this weekend, I went searching for a way to get the raid back online with no host downtime. I found the technique that deletes the drive and then brings it back online with a bus scan using the /sys filesystem delete and rescan entities.

I didn't realize that you could also perform a rescan on a single LUN. I'll have to use that next time.

My question - since I've done a delete/rescan bus operation, my device name and major,minor numbers have changed.

Original
[0:0:0:0] disk ATA ST3250410AS 3.AA /dev/sdc

Current
[0:0:0:0] disk ATA ST3250410AS 3.AA /dev/sdc

If I re-add the device to the raid set using the new device name, will it cause any problems on the next boot?

The drive appears to be fine. I can read all blocks with no errors. Partition table looks ok, etc..

In the future if I rescan just the single LUN, I'm pretty sure I won't run into again this but I'd like to avoid an outage on this event if possible.

Quoted 8 lines

Thanks and regards,
--Tony

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Don't be too quick to say the drive(s) are good, or for that matter, making any assumptions about what is bad or good. (Well, OK, let's
assume the monitor is good). If the drives are reporting errors and
the drives fail, why not trap the error messages and do some diagnostics while drives are still in that failed state? Error messages tell you
what the errors are. Make yourself a bootable CDROM or USB and next
time the drives lockup and/or start spitting out errors, then capture everything. Then boot to the external device (do NOT cycle power), and run one of many possible diagnostics to confirm or eliminate the disks.

#2 lore raw
Quoted 71 lines · David Lethe
Quoted 9 lines

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:linux-raid- [email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Coffman
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Device naming and raid1

I've have a Centos5 box running a software raid-1 set on a pair of

SATA

Quoted 8 lines

drives.

The SATA controller or driver has a flaw.
Every 150 days or so, one of the two drives will experience errors and fail.

Subsequent tests always show the drive and cable to be ok. We bought

a

Quoted 29 lines

couple of replacement drives before we figured that out :-(

On the last event this weekend, I went searching for a way to get the raid back online with no host downtime. I found the technique that deletes the drive and then brings it back online with a bus scan using the /sys filesystem delete and rescan entities.

I didn't realize that you could also perform a rescan on a single LUN. I'll have to use that next time.

My question - since I've done a delete/rescan bus operation, my device name and major,minor numbers have changed.

Original
[0:0:0:0] disk ATA ST3250410AS 3.AA /dev/sdc

Current
[0:0:0:0] disk ATA ST3250410AS 3.AA /dev/sdc

If I re-add the device to the raid set using the new device name, will it cause any problems on the next boot?

The drive appears to be fine. I can read all blocks with no errors. Partition table looks ok, etc..

In the future if I rescan just the single LUN, I'm pretty sure I won't run into again this but I'd like to avoid an outage on this event if possible.

Quoted 9 lines

Thanks and regards,
--Tony

--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid" in
the body of a message to [email protected]
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.htm

Don't be too quick to say the drive(s) are good, or for that matter, making any assumptions about what is bad or good. (Well, OK, let's
assume the monitor is good). If the drives are reporting errors and
the drives fail, why not trap the error messages and do some diagnostics while drives are still in that failed state? Error messages tell you
what the errors are. Make yourself a bootable CDROM or USB and next
time the drives lockup and/or start spitting out errors, then capture everything. Then boot to the external device (do NOT cycle power), and run one of many possible diagnostics to confirm or eliminate the disks.

Quoted 5 lines

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To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid" in the body of a message to [email protected]
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html

Thanks much for the reply. For the purposes of this discussion you can assume that I've already re-established confidence in the drive, the cable, and the controller and that the data on the drives is worthless and I just want to get maximum uptime without causing a raid assemble problem on the next reboot.

Any idea on my original question? If I re-add the drive using the /dev/sdc name will I have problems on the next boot when the drive is named /dev/sda?

Based on my experience with Linux and other software raid implementations, I'm strongly inclined to think that the device naming doesn't matter - the system will scan the drives at boot looking for raid sets and re-assemble them no matter what major and minor numbers or device names are. I'm not opposed to finding out the hard way but I'd really like to get a definitive answer now because by the time this system is next rebooted I'll probably have long forgotten about this.

Regards,
--Tony

#3 lore raw
Quoted 5 lines

Thanks much for the reply. For the purposes of this discussion you can assume that I've already re-established confidence in the drive, the cable, and the controller and that the data on the drives is worthless and I just want to get maximum uptime without causing a raid assemble problem on the next reboot.

Good.

Quoted 4 lines

Any idea on my original question? If I re-add the drive using the /dev/sdc name will I have problems on the next boot when the drive is named /dev/sda?

Since this seems to be block device it really does not matter.

Quoted 3 lines

Based on my experience with Linux and other software raid implementations, I'm strongly inclined to think that the device naming doesn't matter - the system will scan the drives at boot looking for

Kindly read some decent kernel documentation before you jump up and say this. Kindly surf the net and read some decent article's before you do any precious upgrades for now.

Sujit

Signature · 1 line
--linux(2.4/2.6),bsd(4.5.x+),solaris(2.5+)
#4 lore raw

http://www.gagme.com/greg/linux/raid-lvm.php

you can try this with the spare drives you have.

basically what you have to do is to check whether the drive now linked to another device name, is the reason for this problem.

once it shows unplugged or failed you can, use your new replacement drive and reboot.

Kindly read the comments to this article, Which is very usefull.

Quoted 28 lines · Sujit Karataparambil
Quoted 5 lines

Thanks much for the reply. For the purposes of this discussion you can assume that I've already re-established confidence in the drive, the cable, and the controller and that the data on the drives is worthless and I just want to get maximum uptime without causing a raid assemble problem on the next reboot.

Good.

Quoted 4 lines

Any idea on my original question? If I re-add the drive using the /dev/sdc name will I have problems on the next boot when the drive is named /dev/sda?

Since this seems to be block device it really does not matter.

Quoted 3 lines

Based on my experience with Linux and other software raid implementations, I'm strongly inclined to think that the device naming doesn't matter - the system will scan the drives at boot looking for

Kindly read some decent kernel documentation before you jump up and say this. Kindly surf the net and read some decent article's before you do any precious upgrades for now.

Sujit

--
--linux(2.4/2.6),bsd(4.5.x+),solaris(2.5+)

Signature · 1 line
--linux(2.4/2.6),bsd(4.5.x+),solaris(2.5+)
#6 lore raw
In reply to Sujit Karataparambil
Quoted 8 lines · Sujit Karataparambil

http://www.gagme.com/greg/linux/raid-lvm.php

you can try this with the spare drives you have.

basically what you have to do is to check whether the drive now linked to another device name, is the reason for this problem.

Quoted 40 lines

once it shows unplugged or failed you can, use your new replacement drive and reboot.

Kindly read the comments to this article, Which is very usefull.

Quoted 30 lines · Sujit Karataparambil
Quoted 6 lines

Thanks much for the reply. For the purposes of this discussion you can assume that I've already re-established confidence in the drive, the cable, and the controller and that the data on the drives is worthless and I just want to get maximum uptime without causing a raid assemble problem on the next reboot.

Good.

Quoted 4 lines

Any idea on my original question? If I re-add the drive using the /dev/sdc name will I have problems on the next boot when the drive is named /dev/sda?

Since this seems to be block device it really does not matter.

Quoted 4 lines

Based on my experience with Linux and other software raid implementations, I'm strongly inclined to think that the device naming doesn't matter - the system will scan the drives at boot looking for

Kindly read some decent kernel documentation before you jump up and say this. Kindly surf the net and read some decent article's before you do any precious upgrades for now.

Sujit

--
--linux(2.4/2.6),bsd(4.5.x+),solaris(2.5+)

Sujit,
Thanks for the replies and the link. I appreciate them.

I spent several hours this week reading the kernel documentation (md.txt), the mdadm man pages, the linux-raid wiki, and reading articles on the net before posting to the list.

I highly recommend this wiki page from IBM for anybody who has an issue similar to mine (temporary failure that knocks a drive offline who wants to bring it back online without a reboot). This really helped me understand the processes for running a highly available raid-1 set on the linux kernel. The hardware is different but the same principles work.

http://www-941.ibm.com/collaboration/wiki/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=3625

For anybody who is interested, I grabbed a test system this morning to simulate my situation (temporary drive failure). You can, in fact, bring the failed drive back online with a different device name, remirror it, and reboot with no issues on Centos5. The key, as Steve Fairbairn pointed out, is that the mdadm.conf file is setup to use the RAID UUID. I moved the drives into a different scan order with a the same test and that works also. My situation is slightly complicated by the fact that I'm booting off these same drives so I had to mirror the MBR on the second drive but since I had already done this previously on the wonky system this was easily achieved.

see here
http://www.dirigo.net/tuxTips/avoidingProblems/GrubMdMbr.php

I'm running a couple of more tests today to see what happens if I rescan the device to bring it back online with the same device name - I'll post the result in case anybody is interested. I expect that I'll have to initiate the rebuild but don't expect any other problems.

Regards,
--Tony

#7 lore raw
In reply to Tony Coffman
Quoted 5 lines

Any idea on my original question? If I re-add the drive using the /dev/sdc name will I have problems on the next boot when the drive is named /dev/sda?

Quoted 9 lines

Based on my experience with Linux and other software raid implementations, I'm strongly inclined to think that the device naming doesn't matter - the system will scan the drives at boot looking for raid sets and re-assemble them no matter what major and minor numbers or device names are. I'm not opposed to finding out the hard way but I'd really like to get a definitive answer now because by the time this system is next rebooted I'll probably have long forgotten about this.

Not an expert in any sense of the word, but if the array is being identified by its UUID and not by a specific list of devices in mdadm.conf, then the array should assemble fine after a reboot with the device names having changed. I recently had a similar situation where I added a new PCI-E x1 2 port SATA II card, which promptly pushed all my other sdx devices down two places. The raid mounted as expected and all was/is wonderful.

Hope this helps,

Steve.