[LAU] [Fwd: Re: realtime kernel for Debian]
Hi,
There is an promising discussion on the debian-dev mailinglist. Maybe some people who knows more about realtime kernels could join. Also users who might want to have an realtime kernel in Debian and/or want help testing could join the discussion. I think it would be nice if there is also an realtime kernel in Debian or that the default kernel would be improved for realtime (audio) usage.
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/subscribe
\r
Quoted 9 lines · Raphael Hertzog
Quoted 3 lines · Giacomo A. Catenazzi
Do you really need real time kernel?
Debian is a technical driven project, but reading the previous two quotes, "real time" is used as marketing thing.It's good to question the use of any feature, but a real-time kernel is certainly very useful in many industrial applications and Debian is popular in that field. (Don't put a marketing label on anything where you are not yourself sure of your expertise.)
Yes, I didn't write very well my sentence: the previous quotes was more about "there exist rt kernels", "ubuntu has a rt kernel", but not solid requirements. I had to write some "seems", and I'm sorry for the two quoted people if it seems an attack.
Anyway, later in the mail, I asked for precise needs, so we could see better what we should improve.
IMHO most users want a low latency kernel, but not a slower kernel, so a CONFIG_HZ_1000 would be nice. But the original post was about multimedia production (and not reproduction), so the needs are probably other.
My point was more:
- Debian has not rt kernel. Why? Non DD interested or/and low demand? This is an important point. We must not produce a rt-kernel if we cannot provide testers and developers (in unstable).
- kernel management is a weak point in distribution: no good method for kernel dependencies, using full capabilities, ...
so IMHO we should try harder with the normal kernel, so that we can use the same infrastructure and testers. If we fail and we are able to support rt kernels, IMO it is good to provide it in Debian.
The original mail was about "multimedia production" and few year ago kernel developers had a lot of interaction with music industries.
I'm not an expert in the field, but how far are we in their need with standard kernels?)
Quoted 6 lines
I do use a real-time kernel on a Debian based system for one of my customers (but I have to recompile the kernel anyway because I do other customizations) and I have good reasons to do so because I can't suffer serial overrun and I must ensure that the serial interrupt handler is run in the required time and that no other (kernel) task has higher priority.
These *other customizations* are important to rt-kernel. So we need a person (or more) that know the needs and could support us. "realtime" alone is only a label ;-)
ciao
cate
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Quoted 6 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Hi,
There is an promising discussion on the debian-dev mailinglist. Maybe some people who knows more about realtime kernels could join. Also users who might want to have an realtime kernel in Debian and/or want help testing could join the discussion. I think it would be nice if there is also an realtime kernel in Debian or that the default kernel would be improved for realtime (audio) usage.
Here is the thread about a realtime kernel in Debian:
http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-development/268999-realtime-kernel-debian.html
Kind regards,
\r
Quoted 73 lines
\r
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
Re: realtime kernel for Debian
From:
"Giacomo A. Catenazzi" <[email protected]>
Date:
Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:26:35 +0100
To:
[email protected]Quoted 9 lines · Raphael Hertzog
Quoted 3 lines · Giacomo A. Catenazzi
Do you really need real time kernel?
Debian is a technical driven project, but reading the previous two quotes, "real time" is used as marketing thing.It's good to question the use of any feature, but a real-time kernel is certainly very useful in many industrial applications and Debian is popular in that field. (Don't put a marketing label on anything where you are not yourself sure of your expertise.)
Yes, I didn't write very well my sentence: the previous quotes was more about "there exist rt kernels", "ubuntu has a rt kernel", but not solid requirements. I had to write some "seems", and I'm sorry for the two quoted people if it seems an attack.
Anyway, later in the mail, I asked for precise needs, so we could see better what we should improve.IMHO most users want a low latency kernel, but not a slower kernel, so a
CONFIG_HZ_1000would be nice. But the original post was about multimedia production (and not reproduction), so the needs are probably other.My point was more:
- Debian has not rt kernel. Why? Non DD interested or/and low demand? This is an important point. We must not produce a rt-kernel if we cannot provide testers and developers (in unstable).
- kernel management is a weak point in distribution: no good method for kernel dependencies, using full capabilities, ...so IMHO we should try harder with the normal kernel, so that we can use the same infrastructure and testers. If we fail and we are able to support rt kernels, IMO it is good to provide it in Debian.
The original mail was about "multimedia production" and few year ago kernel developers had a lot of interaction with music industries.
I'm not an expert in the field, but how far are we in their need with standard kernels?)Quoted 6 lines
I do use a real-time kernel on a Debian based system for one of my customers (but I have to recompile the kernel anyway because I do other customizations) and I have good reasons to do so because I can't suffer serial overrun and I must ensure that the serial interrupt handler is run in the required time and that no other (kernel) task has higher priority.
These *other customizations* are important to rt-kernel. So we need a person (or more) that know the needs and could support us. "realtime" alone is only a label ;-)
ciao
cate
Maybe I am missing something here but the linux kernel developers are concentrating on the 2.6.29 rt kernel with the backing of red hat. This is a logical choice. The 2.6.29 kernel is now officially released, this kernel is notebook friendly and has the latest drivers. This kernel is also available in the 3rd alpha version of Studio64 3.0 and works superbly, as does the rest of the Studio64 3.0. Why would anyone consider developing an rt kernel for the out of date debian linux?
bernly.onsidering the notebook friend
Quoted 108 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Quoted 7 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Hi,
There is an promising discussion on the debian-dev mailinglist. Maybe some people who knows more about realtime kernels could join. Also users who might want to have an realtime kernel in Debian and/or want help testing could join the discussion. I think it would be nice if there is also an realtime kernel in Debian or that the default kernel would be improved for realtime (audio) usage.
Here is the thread about a realtime kernel in Debian:
http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-development/268999-realtime-kernel-debian.html
Kind regards,
\r
Quoted 67 lines
\r
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
Re: realtime kernel for Debian
From:
"Giacomo A. Catenazzi" <[email protected]>
Date:
Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:26:35 +0100
To:
[email protected]Quoted 11 lines · Raphael Hertzog
Quoted 4 lines · Giacomo A. Catenazzi
Do you really need real time kernel?
Debian is a technical driven project, but reading the previous two quotes, "real time" is used as marketing thing.It's good to question the use of any feature, but a real-time kernel is certainly very useful in many industrial applications and Debian is popular in that field. (Don't put a marketing label on anything where you are not yourself sure of your expertise.)
Yes, I didn't write very well my sentence: the previous quotes was more about "there exist rt kernels", "ubuntu has a rt kernel", but not solid requirements. I had to write some "seems", and I'm sorry for the two quoted people if it seems an attack.
Anyway, later in the mail, I asked for precise needs, so we could see better what we should improve.IMHO most users want a low latency kernel, but not a slower kernel, so a
CONFIG_HZ_1000would be nice. But the original post was about multimedia production (and not reproduction), so the needs are probably other.My point was more:
- Debian has not rt kernel. Why? Non DD interested or/and low demand? This is an important point. We must not produce a rt-kernel if we cannot provide testers and developers (in unstable).
- kernel management is a weak point in distribution: no good method for kernel dependencies, using full capabilities, ...so IMHO we should try harder with the normal kernel, so that we can use the same infrastructure and testers. If we fail and we are able to support rt kernels, IMO it is good to provide it in Debian.
The original mail was about "multimedia production" and few year ago kernel developers had a lot of interaction with music industries.
I'm not an expert in the field, but how far are we in their need with standard kernels?)Quoted 7 lines
I do use a real-time kernel on a Debian based system for one of my customers (but I have to recompile the kernel anyway because I do other customizations) and I have good reasons to do so because I can't suffer serial overrun and I must ensure that the serial interrupt handler is run in the required time and that no other (kernel) task has higher priority.
Quoted 9 lines
These *other customizations* are important to rt-kernel. So we need a person (or more) that know the needs and could support us. "realtime" alone is only a label ;-)
ciao
cate_______________________________________________
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[email protected]
http://lists.64studio.com/mailman/listinfo/64studio-devel
A message that is not in the archive (sent off-list or not yet received): [email protected]
Hi Simon,
Quoted 2 lines
Why would anyone
consider developing an rt kernel for the out of date debian linux?
Debian stable may be older in terms of package versions than other distros, but still a lot of bleeding-edge development happens in Debian 'sid' which trickles down to all the derivative distros, including Ubuntu and 64 Studio.
All we do at 64 Studio is tweak packages to give users a better out-of-the-box experience for creating multimedia. Most of the credit for creating a stable, quality distro should go to the Debian project.
Cheers!
Daniel
A message that is not in the archive (sent off-list or not yet received): [email protected]
Hi,
Sorry, but I've to call again...
The developers seems very willing to include a realtime kernel there repo. They need some people who wants to build and maintain it. This is really a chance for linux audio, especially on Debian. *This is the moment!*
So please consider to offer your help in building, maintaining and/or testing!
Thanks in advance,
\r
Quoted 103 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Quoted 11 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Hi,
There is an promising discussion on the debian-dev mailinglist. Maybe some people who knows more about realtime kernels could join. Also users who might want to have an realtime kernel in Debian and/or want help testing could join the discussion. I think it would be nice if there is also an realtime kernel in Debian or that the default kernel would be improved for realtime (audio) usage.
Here is the thread about a realtime kernel in Debian:
http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-development/268999-realtime-kernel-debian.html
Kind regards,
\r
Quoted 75 lines
\r
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
Re: realtime kernel for Debian
From:
"Giacomo A. Catenazzi" <[email protected]> Date:
Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:26:35 +0100
To:
[email protected]Quoted 10 lines · Raphael Hertzog
Quoted 4 lines · Giacomo A. Catenazzi
Do you really need real time kernel?
Debian is a technical driven project, but reading the previous two quotes,
"real time" is used as marketing thing.It's good to question the use of any feature, but a real-time kernel is certainly very useful in many industrial applications and Debian is popular in that field. (Don't put a marketing label on anything where you are not yourself sure of your expertise.)
Yes, I didn't write very well my sentence: the previous quotes was more about "there exist rt kernels", "ubuntu has a rt kernel", but not solid requirements. I had to write some "seems", and I'm sorry for the two quoted people if it seems an attack.
Anyway, later in the mail, I asked for precise needs, so we could see better what we should improve.IMHO most users want a low latency kernel, but not a slower kernel, so a
CONFIG_HZ_1000would be nice. But the original post was about multimedia production (and not reproduction), so the needs are probably other.My point was more:
- Debian has not rt kernel. Why? Non DD interested or/and low demand? This is an important point. We must not produce a rt-kernel if we cannot provide testers and developers (in unstable).
- kernel management is a weak point in distribution: no good method for kernel dependencies, using full capabilities, ...so IMHO we should try harder with the normal kernel, so that we can use the same infrastructure and testers. If we fail and we are able to support rt kernels, IMO it is good to provide it in Debian.
The original mail was about "multimedia production" and few year ago kernel
developers had a lot of interaction with music industries. I'm not an expert in the field, but how far are we in their need with standard kernels?)Quoted 6 lines
I do use a real-time kernel on a Debian based system for one of my customers (but I have to recompile the kernel anyway because I do other customizations) and I have good reasons to do so because I can't suffer serial overrun and I must ensure that the serial interrupt handler is run in the required time and that no other (kernel) task has higher priority.
These *other customizations* are important to rt-kernel. So we need a person (or more) that know the needs and could support us. "realtime" alone is only a label ;-)
ciao
cate
A message that is not in the archive (sent off-list or not yet received): [email protected]
Quoted 9 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Hi,
Sorry, but I've to call again...
The developers seems very willing to include a realtime kernel there repo. They need some people who wants to build and maintain it. This is really a chance for linux audio, especially on Debian. *This is the moment!*
Quoted 6 lines
So please consider to offer your help in building, maintaining and/or testing!
Thanks in advance,
\r
I often patch vanillas with the rt patch and check them for my hardware, until now all kernels failed with my hardware. I stopped with 64 Studio 2.1 based on etch running a self compiled kernel 2.6.24.7-rt17 for Debian based distros. For music I now run a stable Windows, but I will test any kernel, if someone else will build it.
Best,
Ralf
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Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev-cunTk1MwBs/[email protected]
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
Quoted 5 lines · Ralf Mardorf
I often patch vanillas with the rt patch and check them for my hardware, until now all kernels failed with my hardware. I stopped with 64 Studio 2.1 based on etch running a self compiled kernel 2.6.24.7-rt17 for Debian based distros. For music I now run a stable Windows, but I will test any kernel, if someone else will build it.
Does vanilla work on your hardware ? What's the failure which you observe on your hardware with the -rt patches applied ?
Thanks,
tglx
2009/3/25 Grammostola Rosea <[email protected]>
Quoted 9 lines
Hi,
Sorry, but I've to call again...
The developers seems very willing to include a realtime kernel there repo. They need some people who wants to build and maintain it. This is really a chance for linux audio, especially on Debian. *This is the moment!*
Quoted 7 lines
So please consider to offer your help in building, maintaining and/or testing!
Thanks in advance,
\r
Hi Rosea,
far from being a C skilled programmer I can help in testing and (hopefully) building RT kernels, so where's the starting point?
r
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user-cunTk1MwBs/[email protected]
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
Hello,
Quoted 9 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Sorry, but I've to call again...
The developers seems very willing to include a realtime kernel there repo. They need some people who wants to build and maintain it. This is really a chance for linux audio, especially on Debian. *This is the moment!*
So please consider to offer your help in building, maintaining and/or testing!
I don't know x86 at all and the inner rt-things not enough to do this alone, but I have some knowledge about RT on ARM, the kernel in general and Debian packaging. So this is what I can offer.
Best regards
Uwe
Signature · 6 lines
Pengutronix e.K. | Uwe Kleine-König | Industrial Linux Solutions | http://www.pengutronix.de/ | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-rt-users" in the body of a message to [email protected] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/patch-2.6.29-rt1.bz2
... is out :)
/j
Quoted 129 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Hi,
Sorry, but I've to call again...
The developers seems very willing to include a realtime kernel there repo. They need some people who wants to build and maintain it. This is really a chance for linux audio, especially on Debian. *This is the moment!*
So please consider to offer your help in building, maintaining and/or testing!
Thanks in advance,
\r
Quoted 15 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Quoted 11 lines · Grammostola Rosea
Hi,
There is an promising discussion on the debian-dev mailinglist. Maybe some people who knows more about realtime kernels could join. Also users who might want to have an realtime kernel in Debian and/or want help testing could join the discussion. I think it would be nice if there is also an realtime kernel in Debian or that the default kernel would be improved for realtime (audio) usage.
Here is the thread about a realtime kernel in Debian:
Quoted 88 lines
http://www.linux-archive.org/debian-development/268999-realtime-kernel-debian.html
Kind regards,
\r
Quoted 75 lines
\r
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
Re: realtime kernel for Debian
From:
"Giacomo A. Catenazzi" <[email protected]>
Date:
Tue, 24 Mar 2009 13:26:35 +0100
To:
[email protected]Quoted 10 lines · Raphael Hertzog
Quoted 4 lines · Giacomo A. Catenazzi
Do you really need real time kernel?
Debian is a technical driven project, but reading the previous two quotes,
"real time" is used as marketing thing.It's good to question the use of any feature, but a real-time kernel is certainly very useful in many industrial applications and Debian is popular in that field. (Don't put a marketing label on anything where you are not yourself sure of your expertise.)
Yes, I didn't write very well my sentence: the previous quotes was more about "there exist rt kernels", "ubuntu has a rt kernel", but not solid requirements. I had to write some "seems", and I'm sorry for the two quoted people if it seems an attack.
Anyway, later in the mail, I asked for precise needs, so we could see better what we should improve.IMHO most users want a low latency kernel, but not a slower kernel, so a
CONFIG_HZ_1000would be nice. But the original post was about multimedia production (and not reproduction), so the needs are probably other.My point was more:
- Debian has not rt kernel. Why? Non DD interested or/and low demand? This is an important point. We must not produce a rt-kernel if we cannot provide testers and developers (in unstable).
- kernel management is a weak point in distribution: no good method for kernel dependencies, using full capabilities, ...so IMHO we should try harder with the normal kernel, so that we can use the same infrastructure and testers. If we fail and we are able to support rt kernels, IMO it is good to provide it in Debian.
The original mail was about "multimedia production" and few year ago kernel
developers had a lot of interaction with music industries. I'm not an expert in the field, but how far are we in their need with standard kernels?)Quoted 6 lines
I do use a real-time kernel on a Debian based system for one of my customers (but I have to recompile the kernel anyway because I do other customizations) and I have good reasons to do so because I can't suffer serial overrun and I must ensure that the serial interrupt handler is run in the required time and that no other (kernel) task has higher priority.
These *other customizations* are important to rt-kernel. So we need a person (or more) that know the needs and could support us. "realtime" alone is only a label ;-)
ciao
cate_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev