Uncle Sam Wants YOU!
The two branches of the USA that pertain have now confirmed that Microsoft is a problem requiring an externally asserted solution, but the judicial branch has rejected the specific solution proposed by the executive branch. Three other proposed remedies are mentioned in the Washington Post today. One involves allowing developers access to Microsoft sourcecode equally. One involves allowing computer vendors to configure the Microsoft software as they see fit. The third involves unbundling software from the OS. Gates had stated, correctly, that the split of the company proposed by DOJ did not reflect any understanding of the software business. Looking at the three subsequent proposals, it appears to me that this problem is still searching for a solution. These three recent superficialities also do not appear to be the ideas of people who know how these things work. Meanwhile, Microsoft whole-heartedly engages in a depraved attack on the copyright rights of individuals, making it delightfully clear that the problem remains unsolved, and that Microsoft's general degradation of the computer world continues unabated.
HELLO???????
ANY GEEKS IN HERE?
ANY OF YOU TURKEYS GOOD WITH PROBLEM-SOLVING?
My hastily concocted proposed solution remains at...
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/install/clienux/interim/amicus_curae
WHERE'S YOURS?
Rick Hohensee
www.cLIeNUX.com Who do you want to piss off today?
Pardon me, but what does this have to do with Linux or the Linux Kernel?!?! Post this on the usenet under advocacy, but please don't litter up the kernel listserver with this.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Hohensee" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 8:36 PM
Subject: Uncle Sam Wants YOU!
Quoted 67 lines
The two branches of the USA that pertain have now confirmed that Microsoft is a problem requiring an externally asserted solution, but the judicial branch has rejected the specific solution proposed by the executive branch. Three other proposed remedies are mentioned in the Washington Post today. One involves allowing developers access to Microsoft sourcecode equally. One involves allowing computer vendors to configure the Microsoft software as they see fit. The third involves unbundling software from the OS. Gates had stated, correctly, that the split of the company proposed by DOJ did not reflect any understanding of the software business. Looking at the three subsequent proposals, it appears to me that this problem is still searching for a solution. These three recent superficialities also do not appear to be the ideas of people who know how these things work. Meanwhile, Microsoft whole-heartedly engages in a depraved attack on the copyright rights of individuals, making it delightfully clear that the problem remains unsolved, and that Microsoft's general degradation of the computer world continues unabated.
HELLO???????
ANY GEEKS IN HERE?
ANY OF YOU TURKEYS GOOD WITH PROBLEM-SOLVING?
My hastily concocted proposed solution remains at...
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/install/clienux/interim/amicus_curae
WHERE'S YOURS?
Rick Hohensee
www.cLIeNUX.com Who do you want to piss off today?-
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Quoted 4 lines
Pardon me, but what does this have to do with Linux or the Linux Kernel?!?! Post this on the usenet under advocacy, but please don't litter up the kernel listserver with this.
What this has to do with Linux is that throughout the whole process Microsoft has been putting Linux in the news, on the front page, and now is the opportunity for the people who have been damaged by Microsoft, the people that have very good reasons to be massively dissatisfied with Windows, a set of people that the readers of this list exemplifies, have an opportunity to speak on the matter in a helpful and substantive way that will be of more benefit than any work directly on Linux itself can be, to the computer world generally and to Linux.
Rick Hohensee
:; cLIeNUX /dev/tty3 11:09:49 /
:;d
ABOUT Linux boot floppy mounts temp ABOUT.Linux NetBSD command guest owner Cintpos README configure help source GPL RIGHTS dev incoming subroutine LGPL VVT.tar device log suite
:; cLIeNUX /dev/tty3 11:29:59 /
:;
On Sunday 01 July 2001 11:02, Rick Hohensee ignorantly blabbered:
Quoted 4 lines
Quoted 3 lines
Pardon me, but what does this have to do with Linux or the Linux Kernel?!?! Post this on the usenet under advocacy, but please don't litter up the kernel listserver with this.
Quoted 8 lines
What this has to do with Linux is that throughout the whole process Microsoft has been putting Linux in the news, on the front page, and now is the opportunity for the people who have been damaged by Microsoft, the people that have very good reasons to be massively dissatisfied with Windows, a set of people that the readers of this list exemplifies, have an opportunity to speak on the matter in a helpful and substantive way that will be of more benefit than any work directly on Linux itself can be, to the computer world generally and to Linux.
I'm going to take a break from lurking to point out that I am not dissatisfied with Windows. It has its uses, as do Linux (and NetBSD, and Solaris, and the other operating systems I have installed at home). Frankly, I don't have a problem with Microsoft. If I don't like their product, I'm free to choose not to use it.
Signature · 3 lines
Regards, Kurt Weber [email protected]
Quoted 7 lines · you
Quoted 5 lines · Kurt Maxwell Weber
I'm going to take a break from lurking to point out that I am not dissatisfied with Windows. It has its uses, as do Linux (and NetBSD, and Solaris, and the other operating systems I have installed at home). Frankly, I don't have a problem with Microsoft. If I don't like their product, I'm free to choose not to use it.
Quoted 7 lines
You do understand, don't you, that microsoft is working frantically to take that choice away from you? it's easy to sit back and say it doesn't affect you, til one day you realize that you can't connect to your ISP unless you are running windows xp.
Then it hits you, and it's too late.
In that case, I have the following options:
1) Start my own ISP
2) Use Windows XP
3) Not use Windows XP and not be able to use my current ISP
4) Go to a different ISP
I'll just have to decide which I value more. As long as I won't be killed for using a different OS, I still have a choice.
Signature · 3 lines
Regards, Kurt Weber [email protected]
Quoted 8 lines · Kurt Maxwell Weber
In that case, I have the following options:
1) Start my own ISP
2) Use Windows XP
3) Not use Windows XP and not be able to use my current ISP
4) Go to a different ISPI'll just have to decide which I value more. As long as I won't be killed for using a different OS, I still have a choice.
But these are false alternatives! "I'll give you a choice, I remove either your right foot or your left arm. Your choice." The choice of "neither" is not given. All I want is true alternatives. I hope that one of those alternatives will be to opt out of the coercive, advertising rich, commercial environment that is in our future.
Regards,
Lew Wolfgang
Quoted 7 lines · Kurt Maxwell Weber
Quoted 5 lines
In that case, I have the following options:
1) Start my own ISP
2) Use Windows XP
3) Not use Windows XP and not be able to use my current ISP
4) Go to a different ISP
Argument.
Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 3 lines
I'll just have to decide which I value more. As long as I won't be killed
for using a different OS, I still have a choice.
Argument.
Quoted 2 lines
But these are false alternatives! "I'll give you a choice, I remove either your right foot or your left arm. Your choice."
Gun.
Quoted 2 lines
The choice
of "neither" is not given.
Gun.
Quoted 4 lines
All I want is true alternatives. I
hope that one of those alternatives will be to opt out of the coercive, advertising rich, commercial environment that is in our future.
Go ahead and opt out. The only one using or threatening force here seems to
be you.
DS
Quoted 14 lines · Kurt Maxwell Weber
Quoted 13 lines · you
Quoted 5 lines · Kurt Maxwell Weber
I'm going to take a break from lurking to point out that I am not dissatisfied with Windows. It has its uses, as do Linux (and NetBSD, and Solaris, and the other operating systems I have installed at home). Frankly, I don't have a problem with Microsoft. If I don't like their product, I'm free to choose not to use it.
You do understand, don't you, that microsoft is working frantically to take that choice away from you? it's easy to sit back and say it doesn't affect you, til one day you realize that you can't connect to your ISP unless you are running windows xp.
Quoted 4 lines
Quoted 1 line
Then it hits you, and it's too late.
In that case, I have the following options:
1) Start my own ISP
Only if the upstream provider doesn't require you to use windows.
Quoted 3 lines
2) Use Windows XP
3) Not use Windows XP and not be able to use my current ISP
4) Go to a different ISP
You may not be able to find another. It took me a year. I gave up. I was fortunate that Verio doesn't care what you have... though if you use the dialup or basic dsl, MS is it, or no real support.
Quoted 2 lines
I'll just have to decide which I value more. As long as I won't be killed for using a different OS, I still have a choice.
No, but you might be forced out of a job.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesse I Pollard, II
Email: [email protected]
Any opinions expressed are solely my own.
Quoted 5 lines · Jesse Pollard
Quoted 2 lines · Kurt Maxwell Weber
I'll just have to decide which I value more. As long as I won't be killed for using a different OS, I still have a choice.
No, but you might be forced out of a job.
Apologies for the followup to a followup:
You might be if the life monitoring sensors in surgury suddenly need to be "registered with MS, or ... will be shutdown..." ;-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesse I Pollard, II
Email: [email protected]
Any opinions expressed are solely my own.
Quoted 6 lines · Jesse Pollard
Quoted 4 lines · Jesse Pollard
Quoted 2 lines · Kurt Maxwell Weber
I'll just have to decide which I value more. As long as I won't be killed for using a different OS, I still have a choice.
Quoted 8 lines
Quoted 2 lines
No, but you might be forced out of a job.
Apologies for the followup to a followup:
You might be if the life monitoring sensors in surgury suddenly need to be "registered with MS, or ... will be shutdown..." ;-)
Or a BSOD.
This seems to be meant as a joke, but I don't think it's all that unlikely.
I seem to recall that MS products cannot be used in aircraft control rooms for this reason.
-b
Signature · 4 lines
: __o : -\<, : 0/ 0 -----------
Quoted 4 lines · Ben Ford
This seems to be meant as a joke, but I don't think it's all that unlikely.
I seem to recall that MS products cannot be used in aircraft control rooms for this reason.
It's not just MS. Aircraft control rooms (as well as nuclear power plants, spacecraft mission control, etc.) require special certified software to be used - it's not simply that they avoid MS, they avoid all software that hasn't been blessed.
My understanding is that astronauts going up on the shuttle take turns bringing a laptop computer so they have actual computing power available to them. The shuttle computer is not adequate for many tasks because it is something like 30 years old, but that's what they use because it is certified. So somebody has to bring along a non-certified system in their "personal effects" allowance to get real work done :}
----- Original Message -----
From: "William T Wilson" <[email protected]>
To: "Ben Ford" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: Uncle Sam Wants YOU!
Quoted 3 lines · Ben Ford
Quoted 2 lines
This seems to be meant as a joke, but I don't think it's all that
unlikely.
Quoted 24 lines
Quoted 3 lines
I seem to recall that MS products cannot be used in aircraft control rooms for this reason.
It's not just MS. Aircraft control rooms (as well as nuclear power plants, spacecraft mission control, etc.) require special certified software to be used - it's not simply that they avoid MS, they avoid all software that hasn't been blessed.
My understanding is that astronauts going up on the shuttle take turns bringing a laptop computer so they have actual computing power available to them. The shuttle computer is not adequate for many tasks because it is something like 30 years old, but that's what they use because it is certified. So somebody has to bring along a non-certified system in their "personal effects" allowance to get real work done :}
From what I've heard, NASA relies heavily on modified Linux.
-
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Quoted 6 lines · William T Wilson
My understanding is that astronauts going up on the shuttle take turns bringing a laptop computer so they have actual computing power available to them. The shuttle computer is not adequate for many tasks because it is something like 30 years old, but that's what they use because it is certified. So somebody has to bring along a non-certified system in their "personal effects" allowance to get real work done :}
No.. the laptops are certified too. Not all the software on them I think, but the hardware is definitely restricted and often modified.
The shuttle computers are designed for ONE task -- flying the spacecraft. They are not designed to read email or play quake3. FWIW I do not think you would WANT the shuttle computers doing anything else - these are specially designed hard realtime triple redundant systems quite different from laptops.
FWIW if you read the public records of space station and shuttle logs, it's downright scary how often m$ stuff causes big problems up there.
-Dan
Quoted 4 lines · William T Wilson
On Sun, 1 Jul 2001, Ben Ford wrote:
My understanding is that astronauts going up on the shuttle take turns bringing a laptop computer so they have actual computing power available to them.
actually the mission related laptops are thinkpads running win95...
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=213
the ISS also has some running solaris x86...
all sorts of other computers have flow as parts of payloads...
Quoted 4 lines
The shuttle computer is not adequate for many tasks because it
is something like 30 years old, but that's what they use because it is certified. So somebody has to bring along a non-certified system in their "personal effects" allowance to get real work done :}
avionics packages onboard the suttle have been significantly updated, since first flight(understatement). atlantis was the first to fly with the glass cockpit sometime in early 2000.
joelja
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Jaeggli [email protected]
Academic User Services [email protected]
PGP Key Fingerprint: 1DE9 8FCA 51FB 4195 B42A 9C32 A30D 121E
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It is clear that the arm of criticism cannot replace the criticism of arms. Karl Marx -- Introduction to the critique of Hegel's Philosophy of the right, 1843.
Quoted 15 lines · you
----- Original Message -----
From: "William T Wilson" <[email protected]>Quoted 3 lines · Ben Ford
Quoted 2 lines
This seems to be meant as a joke, but I don't think it's all that
unlikely.
Quoted 9 lines
Quoted 3 lines
I seem to recall that MS products cannot be used in aircraft control rooms for this reason.
It's not just MS. Aircraft control rooms (as well as nuclear power plants, spacecraft mission control, etc.) require special certified software to be used - it's not simply that they avoid MS, they avoid all software that hasn't been blessed.
Quoted 8 lines
Quoted 6 lines
My understanding is that astronauts going up on the shuttle take turns bringing a laptop computer so they have actual computing power available to them. The shuttle computer is not adequate for many tasks because it is something like 30 years old, but that's what they use because it is certified. So somebody has to bring along a non-certified system in their "personal effects" allowance to get real work done :}
From what I've heard, NASA relies heavily on modified Linux.
Last time I was in Mission Control at JSC, some of the consoles I looked at were very obviously X desktops. I didn't look closely enough to identify them more specifically - I'll take a closer look next month when I'm out there again...
James.
Quoted 4 lines · William T Wilson
It's not just MS. Aircraft control rooms (as well as nuclear power plants, spacecraft mission control, etc.) require special certified software to be used - it's not simply that they avoid MS, they avoid all software that hasn't been blessed.
Not true. The FAA is certifying NT in aircraft. See the message I just sent.
Signature · 4 lines
Tracy Reed http://www.ultraviolet.org "Bill Gates is a white Persian cat and a monocle away from becoming another James Bond villain." "No Mr Bond, I expect you to upgrade." --Dennis Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Pollard" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>; "Kurt Maxwell Weber" <[email protected]>; "J Sloan" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Uncle Sam Wants YOU!
[snip]
Quoted 5 lines
Quoted 2 lines
In that case, I have the following options:
1) Start my own ISPOnly if the upstream provider doesn't require you to use windows.
Quoted 9 lines
Quoted 3 lines
2) Use Windows XP
3) Not use Windows XP and not be able to use my current ISP
4) Go to a different ISPYou may not be able to find another. It took me a year. I gave up. I was fortunate that Verio doesn't care what you have... though if you use the dialup or basic dsl, MS is it, or no real support.
Quoted 1 line
I'll just have to decide which I value more. As long as I won't be
killed
Quoted 3 lines
Quoted 1 line
for using a different OS, I still have a choice.
No, but you might be forced out of a job.
In one of the large metro areas in which I live, there are a LOT of ISPs that do not require you to use Windows, but will not support you beyond the IP layer if you don't. Use linux, install PPP with MS-CHAPv2 (with or without MPPE) for your dialup connection and it works just fine on a Winblows-only ISP. DSL or Cable, just acquire your actual IP settings program a Linksys router/hub box and be done with it.
Quoted 2 lines · Ben Ford
I seem to recall that MS products cannot be used in aircraft control rooms for this reason.
Your statement above is not necessarily true. By control rooms do you mean control towers or in the aircraft themselves? Inside the aircraft itself is obviously the more critical situation and NT is being used there so I don't see why it wouldn't be used in the air traffic control system as well whether it be in control towers, air route traffic control centers, or wherever.
MS products are used in life-critical situations. First, there was the USS Yorktown. But that was just a test situation.
Here is an NT system used in a real non-test and FAA certified situation. It operates the primary flight instruments of a high-performance aircraft. There are several certified aircraft using this unit. I can't remember the others I've read about but this is the Lancair Columbia 400.
From http://www.avweb.com/articles/colum400/ :
Quoted 6 lines
Stationary is the word until the system boots -- perhaps like the computer you're using to read this -- and the solid-state AHARS (attitude, heading and reference system) sensors orient. Of course, this slight delay (the avionics system uses an even more stable version of Microsoft's almost-bulletproof Windows NT) generally won't pose a problem during cold starts -- particularly cold-weather cold starts.
I gasped aloud when I read "almost-bulletproof Windows NT".
As a pilot who flies people into the clouds regularly (San Diego usually has good weather but only after the marine layer clears) I can tell you that a reliable attitude indicator (AI) is an absolute life-critical necessity. Without one, you are in serious trouble. When inside a cloud without visual reference to the ground all you see out the windows is whiteness. It's like being on the inside of a giant white sphere with no markings whatsoever. Or blackness if at night. If the attitude indicator fails vertigo often sets in as you can't tell which way is up as your brain, confused by the unnatural state of not having any visual reference to the horizon, tells you incorrect things. You can't just drop a penny and see which way it falls or hang a string from the ceiling and see which way it hangs or look at the level of water in a glass to see what is level. The aircraft will be turning steeply (left or right, you have no way of knowing and banking the aircraft the wrong way will only make it much worse very fast) which means it is being accelerated towards the inside of the turn so the penny may fall straight down, the string may hang straight, and the water in the glass might be level. Whatever these things are doing, they won't be right. You will be descending very quickly now since the lift of the steeply banked wings is being generated horizontally instead of vertically, tightening the turn. This continues until impact. You have absolutely no way to tell which way is up or which way you are turning without a stable gyroscopic reference. It is my (and every pilots) worst nightmare when flying in clouds or anytime the outside horizon is not clearly visible.
Yes, there are instruments which can be used to derive attitude information such as rate of turn, altimeter, vertical speed indicator, etc. (assuming they aren't driven by the same crashed computer as the AI) and this is standard procedure in the case of AI failure but it takes lots of practice to be able to use them because the information they provide you with is indirect and requires interpretation. Not an easy thing to do when you know you are in serious trouble. Missouri Governer Mel Carnahan was killed in a plane crash recently where the attitude indicator failed and the pilot had to interpret the other instruments to get attitude info and wasn't able to cut it. The article quoted above claims that this is a special version of NT that really is stable...no we really mean it this time! Why they don't make this especially stable version available to consumers is beyond me...oh wait, I know why: because it's really just the same code everyone runs on their servers and desktops! Fortunately, this system only runs for a few hours at a time and gets shut down/rebooted after every flight. It also runs only one application and never has any new software installed or uninstalled. No network access either. That should help a lot with reliability. I hope this thing doesn't have a hard drive in it. The gyroscopic effects on the platter of a pitching aircraft can't be good for the bearings. This equipment is so expensive that it is expected to last many years, even decades. Who is going to support NT 20 years from now? This setup was approved and certified for use by the FAA. I wonder if any software engineers looked at it? I'll have to find out what criteria they use for certifying this sort of thing. It must use an x86 processor too. I sure hope it has good cooling. I've already had one avionics failure due to overheating (a cooling duct came loose behind the instrument panel and I lost the whole radio stack so there was no way to get clearances or anything) and I would really hate for it to happen in instrument conditions!
I'm all for modernizing the cockpit with computers. Putting all of the flight info onto a flat panel display is very useful. Some airplanes I've flown are 30 years old with instruments that really look it.
Which leads me to wonder: Would I trust Linux in this situation?
More so than NT but I still don't know what my first choice would really be given that death is a possibility if it fails at an inopportune time.
In three hours I depart for a flight over open ocean with potential visibility restrictions (still need to get the weather briefing). I better do a thorough preflight and make sure all inspections are current. Wouldn't want to pull a Kennedy!
Signature · 4 lines
Tracy Reed http://www.ultraviolet.org "Bill Gates is a white Persian cat and a monocle away from becoming another James Bond villain." "No Mr Bond, I expect you to upgrade." --Dennis Miller
Quoted 14 lines · Tracy R Reed
Quoted 2 lines · Ben Ford
I seem to recall that MS products cannot be used in aircraft control rooms for this reason.
Your statement above is not necessarily true. By control rooms do you mean control towers or in the aircraft themselves? Inside the aircraft itself is obviously the more critical situation and NT is being used there so I don't see why it wouldn't be used in the air traffic control system as well whether it be in control towers, air route traffic control centers, or wherever.
MS products are used in life-critical situations. First, there was the USS Yorktown. But that was just a test situation.
Quoted 6 lines
Here is an NT system used in a real non-test and FAA certified situation. It operates the primary flight instruments of a high-performance aircraft. There are several certified aircraft using this unit. I can't remember the others I've read about but this is the Lancair Columbia 400.
[SNIPPED most of the rest]
It's Windows/CE. It takes a few seconds to boot from NVRAM. It's used in Honeywell Flight Directors (for the FP display). It's not like it was life-critical, you still have (required) steam gages for backup. It is probably more reliable than the mechanical backups because, except for the bugs, it has no moving parts.
Quoted 1 line
Wouldn't want to pull a Kennedy!
Don't bet on it. I'm not a Kennedy supporter, but the "rich kid" went to the best and most expensive flight school in America. He had already passed the Instrument written exam. He had more flight instruction than many ATPs and the instruction was modern which means he seldom looked out the window (a pet peeve of mine), doing about everything by reference to instruments.
FYI. The horizontal stabilizer was not with the airplane when it was recovered; The damage was impact damage from hitting water dead-nuts vertical; The loss of control occurred while leveling off during a routine descent.
Regardless of what the politicians at the NTSB say, this looks to me like the AC shed its tail, resulting in an unrecoverable loss of control. Of course, what do I know. I'm only a commercial pilot/Inst with a little over 3,000 hours over the past 30 years.
Cheers,
Dick Johnson
Penguin : Linux version 2.4.1 on an i686 machine (799.53 BogoMips).
I was going to compile a list of innovations that could be attributed to Microsoft. Once I realized that Ctrl-Alt-Del was handled in the BIOS, I found that there aren't any.