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Performance regression due to #33d4221: write_sha1_file: freshen existing objects

BUG In review Stefan Saasen 3 participants 19 messages Jun 15, 2016

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#0 lore raw

We became aware of slow merge times with the following setup:

The merge is created in a temporary location that uses alternates. The temporary repository is on a local disk, the alternate object database on an NFS mount.

After some investigation we believe that #33d4221 (present in git 2.2.0, absent in 2.1.4) is causing this regression in merge time.

The following are merge times (in seconds) with git@33d4221~ (2.1.2-393-gabcb865) (before the change)

Elapsed System User

 Min.   :0.3700   Min.   :0.04000   Min.   :0.3000
 1st Qu.:0.3800   1st Qu.:0.05000   1st Qu.:0.3100
 Median :0.4000   Median :0.06000   Median :0.3300
 Mean   :0.4295   Mean   :0.05905   Mean   :0.3519
 3rd Qu.:0.4600   3rd Qu.:0.07000   3rd Qu.:0.3600
 Max.   :0.5900   Max.   :0.09000   Max.   :0.4900

The following are merge times with git@33d4221 (2.1.2-394-g33d4221):

Elapsed System User

 Min.   : 8.58   Min.   :1.46   Min.   :0.4400
 1st Qu.: 9.63   1st Qu.:1.60   1st Qu.:0.4400
 Median :10.64   Median :1.66   Median :0.4800
 Mean   :10.50   Mean   :1.69   Mean   :0.4986
 3rd Qu.:11.13   3rd Qu.:1.81   3rd Qu.:0.5000
 Max.   :13.96   Max.   :2.05   Max.   :0.6700

As you can see the merge times are an order of magnitude slower after the change.

The effect of #33d4221 can be seen when strace'ing the merge:

Running strace on git@33d4221 yields
% time seconds usecs/call calls errors syscall
------ ----------- ----------- --------- --------- ----------------

 70.79    0.714852         178      4018           utime
 14.73    0.148789           3     50141     50123 lstat
 13.88    0.140198          17      8074      8067 access
  0.24    0.002455         614         4           rename
  0.15    0.001493           3       577           write
  0.06    0.000618          10        65           close
  0.04    0.000453           3       152           brk
  0.04    0.000433          27        16           mkdir
  0.03    0.000310           8        41           fstat

Running strace on git@33d4221~ yields

% time seconds usecs/call calls errors syscall
------ ----------- ----------- --------- --------- ----------------

 98.37    0.138516           3     50141     50123 lstat
  0.92    0.001292           2       577           write
  0.37    0.000520          14        38        31 access
  0.18    0.000252          36         7           getcwd
  0.17    0.000237           7        36        20 stat
  0.00    0.000000           0        40           read
  0.00    0.000000           0        87        30 open

My current hypothesis is that the additional access, but more importantly the additional utime calls are responsible in the increased merge times that we see.
NFS stats on the server for the tests seem to confirm this (see nfsstat-{after,before}-change.txt on
https://bitbucket.org/snippets/ssaasen/oend).
This is certainly due to the fact that this will all happen over NFS but in 2.1.4 this worked fine and starting with 2.2 this has become very slow.

Looking at the detailed strace shows that utime will be called repeatedly in same cases (e.g.
https://bitbucket.org/snippets/ssaasen/oend shows an example where the same packfile will be updated more than 4000 times in a single merge).

http://www.spinics.net/lists/git/msg240106.html discusses a potential improvement for this case. Would that be an acceptable avenue to improve this situation?

Best regards,
Stefan Saasen

#1 lore raw
Quoted 3 lines · Stefan Saasen

The merge is created in a temporary location that uses alternates. The temporary repository is on a local disk, the alternate object database on an NFS mount.

Is the alternate writeable? If we can't freshen the object, we fall back to storing the object locally, which could have a performance impact. But it looks from your tables below like the utime() call is succeeding, so that is probably not what is happening here.

Quoted 3 lines

My current hypothesis is that the additional access, but more importantly the additional utime calls are responsible in the increased merge times that we see.

Yeah, that makes sense from your tables. The commit in question flips the order of the loose/packed check, and the packed check should be much faster on your NFS mount. Can you try:

sha1_file.c +1 -1
index 88f06ba..822aaef 100644
@@ -3014,7 +3014,7 @@ int write_sha1_file(const void *buf, unsigned long len, const char *type, unsign
 	write_sha1_file_prepare(buf, len, type, sha1, hdr, &hdrlen);
 	if (returnsha1)
 		hashcpy(returnsha1, sha1);
-	if (freshen_loose_object(sha1) || freshen_packed_object(sha1))
+	if (freshen_packed_object(sha1) || freshen_loose_object(sha1))
 		return 0;
 	return write_loose_object(sha1, hdr, hdrlen, buf, len, 0);
 }

I think that should clear up the access() calls, but leave the utime() ones.

Quoted 8 lines

Looking at the detailed strace shows that utime will be called repeatedly in same cases (e.g.
https://bitbucket.org/snippets/ssaasen/oend shows an example where the same packfile will be updated more than 4000 times in a single merge).

http://www.spinics.net/lists/git/msg240106.html discusses a potential improvement for this case. Would that be an acceptable avenue to improve this situation?

I think so. Here's a tentative patch:

cache.h +1 -0
index 3d3244b..72c6888 100644
@@ -1174,6 +1174,7 @@ extern struct packed_git {
 	int pack_fd;
 	unsigned pack_local:1,
 		 pack_keep:1,
+		 freshened:1,
 		 do_not_close:1;
 	unsigned char sha1[20];
 	/* something like ".git/objects/pack/xxxxx.pack" */
sha1_file.c +5 -1
index 822aaef..f27cbf1 100644
@@ -2999,7 +2999,11 @@ static int freshen_loose_object(const unsigned char *sha1)
 static int freshen_packed_object(const unsigned char *sha1)
 {
 	struct pack_entry e;
-	return find_pack_entry(sha1, &e) && freshen_file(e.p->pack_name);
+	if (!find_pack_entry(sha1, &e))
+		return 0;
+	if (e.p->freshened)
+		return 1;
+	return freshen_file(e.p->pack_name);
 }
 
 int write_sha1_file(const void *buf, unsigned long len, const char *type, unsigned char *returnsha1)

If it's not a problem, I'd love to see timings for your case with just the first patch, and then with both.

You may also be interested in:

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/266370

which addresses another performance problem related to the freshen/recent code in v2.2.

-Peff

#2 lore raw
Quoted 2 lines

If it's not a problem, I'd love to see timings for your case with just the first patch, and then with both.

Thanks for the swift response, much appreciated Jeff!

Here are the timings for the two patches:

Patch 1 on top of 33d4221c79

Elapsed System User

 Min.   :6.110   Min.   :0.6700   Min.   :0.3600
 1st Qu.:6.580   1st Qu.:0.6900   1st Qu.:0.3900
 Median :7.260   Median :0.7100   Median :0.4100
 Mean   :7.347   Mean   :0.7248   Mean   :0.4214
 3rd Qu.:8.000   3rd Qu.:0.7400   3rd Qu.:0.4600
 Max.   :8.860   Max.   :0.8700   Max.   :0.5100

I've had to slightly tweak your second patch (freshened was never set) but applying the modified patch yielded even better results compared to patch 1:

Elapsed System User

 Min.   :0.38   Min.   :0.03000   Min.   :0.2900
 1st Qu.:0.38   1st Qu.:0.04000   1st Qu.:0.3100
 Median :0.39   Median :0.06000   Median :0.3200
 Mean   :0.43   Mean   :0.05667   Mean   :0.3519
 3rd Qu.:0.42   3rd Qu.:0.07000   3rd Qu.:0.3600
 Max.   :0.68   Max.   :0.08000   Max.   :0.5700

This is pretty much back to the "before" state.
The graph really tells the whole story:
https://bytebucket.org/snippets/ssaasen/GeRE/raw/7367353a58c50ccd7c493af40ffb6ba1533e1490/git-merge-timing-patched.png
(After is the change in #33d4221, Before the parent of #33d4221 and so on) The graph and the NFS stats can be found here:
https://bitbucket.org/snippets/ssaasen/GeRE

My tweaked version of your second patch is:

cache.h +1 -0
index 51ee856..8982055 100644
@@ -1168,6 +1168,7 @@ extern struct packed_git {
        int pack_fd;
        unsigned pack_local:1,
                 pack_keep:1,
+               freshened:1,
                 do_not_close:1;
        unsigned char sha1[20];
        /* something like ".git/objects/pack/xxxxx.pack" */
sha1_file.c +0 -0
index bc6322e..c0ccd4b 100644
@@ -2999,7 +2999,11 @@ static int freshen_loose_object(const unsigned

char *sha1)
static int freshen_packed_object(const unsigned char *sha1)

 {
        struct pack_entry e;

- return find_pack_entry(sha1, &e) && freshen_file(e.p->pack_name);
+ if (!find_pack_entry(sha1, &e))
+ return 0;
+ if (e.p->freshened)
+ return 1;
+ return e.p->freshened = freshen_file(e.p->pack_name);
}

int write_sha1_file(const void *buf, unsigned long len, const char
*type, unsigned char *returnsha1)

The only change is that I assign the result of freshen_file to the freshened flag.

I've only ran this with the test case I was using before but it looks like this is pretty much fixing the merge time changes we observed.

Thanks again for the swift response. I've got my test setup sitting here, happy to rerun the tests if that'd be useful.

Is there a chance to backport those changes to the 2.2+ branches?

Quoted 6 lines

You may also be interested in:

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/266370

which addresses another performance problem related to the freshen/recent code in v2.2.

Thanks for the pointer, I'll have a look at that as well.

Cheers,
Stefan

#3 lore raw
Quoted 2 lines · Stefan Saasen

Here are the timings for the two patches:
[...]

Thanks, that matches what I was hoping for.

Review

Quoted 9 lines

My tweaked version of your second patch is:
[...]

(quoted diff) +5 -1
-       return find_pack_entry(sha1, &e) && freshen_file(e.p->pack_name);
+       if (!find_pack_entry(sha1, &e))
+              return 0;
+       if (e.p->freshened)
+              return 1;
+       return e.p->freshened = freshen_file(e.p->pack_name);
 }

Whooops, yeah, setting the flag is probably helpful. :)

We usually try to avoid assignments in a return like this, so I've written it out a little more verbosely in my final version. I'll send those patches in a moment.

[1/2]: sha1_file: freshen pack objects before loose [2/2]: sha1_file: only freshen packs once per run

Quoted 1 line

Is there a chance to backport those changes to the 2.2+ branches?

That's up to Junio. These patches can be applied straight to the jk/prune-mtime topic. Usually he would then merge the topic up to "maint", which at this would potentially become the next v2.3.x. If an issue is critical (e.g., a security vulnerability), he'll sometimes merge and roll maintenance releases for older versions. But I don't know if this counts as critical (it is for you, certainly, but I don't think that many people are affected, as the crucial factor here is really the slow NFS filesystem operations).

-Peff

#4 lore raw

PATCH 1/2 sha1_file: freshen pack objects before loose

When writing out an object file, we first check whether it already exists and if so optimize out the write. Prior to 33d4221, we did this by calling has_sha1_file(), which will check for packed objects followed by loose. Since that commit, we check loose objects first.

For the common case of a repository whose objects are mostly packed, this means we will make a lot of extra access() system calls checking for loose objects. We should follow the same packed-then-loose order that all of our other lookups use.

---
 sha1_file.c | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
sha1_file.c +1 -1
index 88f06ba..822aaef 100644
@@ -3014,7 +3014,7 @@ int write_sha1_file(const void *buf, unsigned long len, const char *type, unsign
 	write_sha1_file_prepare(buf, len, type, sha1, hdr, &hdrlen);
 	if (returnsha1)
 		hashcpy(returnsha1, sha1);
-	if (freshen_loose_object(sha1) || freshen_packed_object(sha1))
+	if (freshen_packed_object(sha1) || freshen_loose_object(sha1))
 		return 0;
 	return write_loose_object(sha1, hdr, hdrlen, buf, len, 0);
 }
Signature · 1 line
2.4.0.rc2.384.g7297a4a
#5 lore raw

Re: [PATCH 1/2] sha1_file: freshen pack objects before loose

I didn't expect anything else (as the patch is the same as the previous one) but I verified that applying this patch has the desired effect (https://bitbucket.org/snippets/ssaasen/9AXg).

Thanks for the fix Jeff.

Quoted 34 lines · Jeff King

When writing out an object file, we first check whether it already exists and if so optimize out the write. Prior to 33d4221, we did this by calling has_sha1_file(), which will check for packed objects followed by loose. Since that commit, we check loose objects first.

For the common case of a repository whose objects are mostly packed, this means we will make a lot of extra access() system calls checking for loose objects. We should follow the same packed-then-loose order that all of our other lookups use.

---
 sha1_file.c | 2 +-
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
sha1_file.c +1 -2
index 88f06ba..822aaef 100644
@@ -3014,7 +3014,7 @@ int write_sha1_file(const void *buf, unsigned long len, const char *type, unsign
        write_sha1_file_prepare(buf, len, type, sha1, hdr, &hdrlen);
        if (returnsha1)
                hashcpy(returnsha1, sha1);
-       if (freshen_loose_object(sha1) || freshen_packed_object(sha1))
+       if (freshen_packed_object(sha1) || freshen_loose_object(sha1))
                return 0;
        return write_loose_object(sha1, hdr, hdrlen, buf, len, 0);
 }
--

2.4.0.rc2.384.g7297a4a

#6 lore raw

PATCH 2/2 sha1_file: only freshen packs once per run

In reply to Jeff King

Since 33d4221 (write_sha1_file: freshen existing objects, 2014-10-15), we update the mtime of existing objects that we would have written out (had they not existed). For the common case in which many objects are packed, we may update the mtime on a single packfile repeatedly. This can result in a noticeable performance problem if calling utime() is expensive (e.g., because your storage is on NFS).

We can fix this by keeping a per-pack flag that lets us freshen only once per program invocation.

An alternative would be to keep the packed_git.mtime flag up to date as we freshen, and freshen only once every N seconds. In practice, it's not worth the complexity. We are racing against prune expiration times here, which inherently must be set to accomodate reasonable program running times (because they really care about the time between an object being written and it becoming referenced, and the latter is typically the last step a program takes).

---
Hopefully I didn't botch the flag logic again. :) I tested with "strace -c" myself this time, so I think it is good.

 cache.h     | 1 +
 sha1_file.c | 9 ++++++++-
 2 files changed, 9 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
cache.h +1 -0
index 3d3244b..72c6888 100644
@@ -1174,6 +1174,7 @@ extern struct packed_git {
 	int pack_fd;
 	unsigned pack_local:1,
 		 pack_keep:1,
+		 freshened:1,
 		 do_not_close:1;
 	unsigned char sha1[20];
 	/* something like ".git/objects/pack/xxxxx.pack" */
sha1_file.c +8 -1
index 822aaef..26b9b2b 100644
@@ -2999,7 +2999,14 @@ static int freshen_loose_object(const unsigned char *sha1)
 static int freshen_packed_object(const unsigned char *sha1)
 {
 	struct pack_entry e;
-	return find_pack_entry(sha1, &e) && freshen_file(e.p->pack_name);
+	if (!find_pack_entry(sha1, &e))
+		return 0;
+	if (e.p->freshened)
+		return 1;
+	if (!freshen_file(e.p->pack_name))
+		return 0;
+	e.p->freshened = 1;
+	return 1;
 }
 
 int write_sha1_file(const void *buf, unsigned long len, const char *type, unsigned char *returnsha1)
Signature · 1 line
2.4.0.rc2.384.g7297a4a
#7 lore raw

Re: [PATCH 2/2] sha1_file: only freshen packs once per run

I can confirm that this patch is equivalent to the previous one.

https://bitbucket.org/snippets/ssaasen/9AXg shows both the timing and the NFS stats showing the effect of applying this patch.

Thanks for the fix Jeff!

Cheers,
Stefan

Quoted 63 lines · Jeff King

Since 33d4221 (write_sha1_file: freshen existing objects, 2014-10-15), we update the mtime of existing objects that we would have written out (had they not existed). For the common case in which many objects are packed, we may update the mtime on a single packfile repeatedly. This can result in a noticeable performance problem if calling utime() is expensive (e.g., because your storage is on NFS).

We can fix this by keeping a per-pack flag that lets us freshen only once per program invocation.

An alternative would be to keep the packed_git.mtime flag up to date as we freshen, and freshen only once every N seconds. In practice, it's not worth the complexity. We are racing against prune expiration times here, which inherently must be set to accomodate reasonable program running times (because they really care about the time between an object being written and it becoming referenced, and the latter is typically the last step a program takes).

---
Hopefully I didn't botch the flag logic again. :) I tested with "strace

(quoted diff) +0 -1
-c" myself this time, so I think it is good.
 
 cache.h     | 1 +
 sha1_file.c | 9 ++++++++-
 2 files changed, 9 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)
cache.h +1 -0
index 3d3244b..72c6888 100644
@@ -1174,6 +1174,7 @@ extern struct packed_git {
        int pack_fd;
        unsigned pack_local:1,
                 pack_keep:1,
+                freshened:1,
                 do_not_close:1;
        unsigned char sha1[20];
        /* something like ".git/objects/pack/xxxxx.pack" */
sha1_file.c +8 -2
index 822aaef..26b9b2b 100644
@@ -2999,7 +2999,14 @@ static int freshen_loose_object(const unsigned char *sha1)
 static int freshen_packed_object(const unsigned char *sha1)
 {
        struct pack_entry e;
-       return find_pack_entry(sha1, &e) && freshen_file(e.p->pack_name);
+       if (!find_pack_entry(sha1, &e))
+               return 0;
+       if (e.p->freshened)
+               return 1;
+       if (!freshen_file(e.p->pack_name))
+               return 0;
+       e.p->freshened = 1;
+       return 1;
 }
 
 int write_sha1_file(const void *buf, unsigned long len, const char *type, unsigned char *returnsha1)
--

2.4.0.rc2.384.g7297a4a

#8 lore raw
In reply to Jeff King
Quoted 4 lines · Jeff King

... But I don't know
if this counts as critical (it is for you, certainly, but I don't think that many people are affected, as the crucial factor here is really the slow NFS filesystem operations).

If it is critical to some people, they can downmerge to their custom old installations of Git they maintain with ease, of course, and that "with ease" part is the reason why I try to apply fixes to tip of the original topic branch even though they were merged to the mainline eons ago ;-).

Thanks. The patches look good from cursory reading.

#9 lore raw
Quoted 7 lines · Junio C Hamano
Quoted 4 lines · Jeff King

... But I don't know
if this counts as critical (it is for you, certainly, but I don't think that many people are affected, as the crucial factor here is really the slow NFS filesystem operations).

Quoted 5 lines

If it is critical to some people, they can downmerge to their custom old installations of Git they maintain with ease, of course, and that "with ease" part is the reason why I try to apply fixes to tip of the original topic branch even though they were merged to the mainline eons ago ;-).

I think it is a bigger deal for folks who do not ship a custom installation, but expect to ship a third-party system that interacts with whatever version of git their customers happen to have (in which case they can only recommend their customers to upgrade).

I don't know how Stash or GitLab installations work. GitHub ships our own custom git (which I maintain), though we are already on 2.3.x.

Either way, though, I do not think it is the upstream Git project's problem.

-Peff

#10 lore raw
Quoted 10 lines
Quoted 5 lines

If it is critical to some people, they can downmerge to their custom old installations of Git they maintain with ease, of course, and that "with ease" part is the reason why I try to apply fixes to tip of the original topic branch even though they were merged to the mainline eons ago ;-).

I think it is a bigger deal for folks who do not ship a custom installation, but expect to ship a third-party system that interacts with whatever version of git their customers happen to have (in which case they can only recommend their customers to upgrade).

Yes, this is the situation we are facing. We allow our customers to use the git version that is supported/available on their OS (within a certain range of supported versions) so our customers usually don't compile from source.

Quoted 2 lines

Either way, though, I do not think it is the upstream Git project's problem.

That's fair enough, I was mostly enquiring about the official git versions this will land in so that we can advise customers what git version to use (or not to use).

I've noticed Peff's patches on pu which suggest they will be available in git 2.5?
Do you Junio, have plans to merge them to maint (2.3.x) and/or next (2.4)?

While I certainly agree that this is specific to Git on NFS and not a more widespread git performance problem, I'd love to be able to message something other than "skip all the git version between and including git 2.2 - 2.4".

I appreciate your consideration and thanks again for the swift response on this.

Cheers,
Stefan

#11 lore raw
Quoted 2 lines · Stefan Saasen

I've noticed Peff's patches on pu which suggest they will be available in git 2.5?

Being on 'pu' (or 'next' for that matter) is not a suggestion for a change to appear in any future version at all, even though it often means that it would soon be merged to 'master' and will be in the upcoming release to be on 'next' in early part of a development cycle. Some larger topics would stay on 'next' for a few cycles.

Quoted 1 line

Do you Junio, have plans to merge them to maint (2.3.x) and/or next (2.4)?

The topic will hopefully be merged to 'master' after 2.4 final is released end of this month, down to 'maint' early May and will ship with 2.4.1, unless there is unforeseen issues discovered in the change while people try it out while it is in 'next' (which will happen today, hopefully).

#12 lore raw
Quoted 9 lines
Quoted 2 lines

I've noticed Peff's patches on pu which suggest they will be available in git 2.5?

Being on 'pu' (or 'next' for that matter) is not a suggestion for a change to appear in any future version at all, even though it often means that it would soon be merged to 'master' and will be in the upcoming release to be on 'next' in early part of a development cycle. Some larger topics would stay on 'next' for a few cycles.

Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 1 line

Do you Junio, have plans to merge them to maint (2.3.x) and/or next (2.4)?

The topic will hopefully be merged to 'master' after 2.4 final is released end of this month, down to 'maint' early May and will ship with 2.4.1, unless there is unforeseen issues discovered in the change while people try it out while it is in 'next' (which will happen today, hopefully).

Thanks for the clarification Junio.

#13 lore raw
In reply to Junio C Hamano
Quoted 11 lines · Junio C Hamano
Quoted 2 lines · Stefan Saasen

I've noticed Peff's patches on pu which suggest they will be available in git 2.5?

Being on 'pu' (or 'next' for that matter) is not a suggestion for a change to appear in any future version at all, even though it often means that it would soon be merged to 'master' and will be in the upcoming release to be on 'next' in early part of a development cycle. Some larger topics would stay on 'next' for a few cycles.

Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 1 line

Do you Junio, have plans to merge them to maint (2.3.x) and/or next (2.4)?

The topic will hopefully be merged to 'master' after 2.4 final is released end of this month, down to 'maint' early May and will ship with 2.4.1, unless there is unforeseen issues discovered in the change while people try it out while it is in 'next' (which will happen today, hopefully).

... and then if I do not forget and if the topic is really important for real-world users, I am OK to merge it down to 2.3 and even 2.2 maintenance tracks later. But that will happen only after the topic hits 'maint', which will happen only after the topic hits 'master'.

What you _can_ help is the "if I do not forget" part ;-) Also see a similar discussion we had recently

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/264365

The key sentence from my part in the thread is

Quoted 2 lines

When I say "the tip of 'master' is meant to be more stable than any tagged versions", I do mean it.

and the reasoning behind it that is given in the paragraph before that, though.

Perhaps companies like Atlassian that rely on the stability of the open source Git can spare some resources and join forces with like minded folks on LTS of older maintenance tracks, if they are truly interested in.

#14 lore raw
Quoted 4 lines

Perhaps companies like Atlassian that rely on the stability of the open source Git can spare some resources and join forces with like minded folks on LTS of older maintenance tracks, if they are truly interested in.

We certainly can and would like to. I'm not entirely sure what that would entail though?

Quoted 1 line

From reading through $gmane/264365 I've identified the following

responsibilities/opportunities to help:

Quoted 6 lines

- Monitor "git log --first-parent maint-lts..master" and find

     the tip of topic branches that need to be down-merged;

- Down-merge such topics to maint-lts; this might involve cherry-picking instead of merge, as the bugfix topics may originally be done on the codebase newer than maint-lts;

and more importantly testing the maint-lts version to ensure backported changes don't introduce regressions and the maint-lts branch is stable.

This suggests specific, spaced LTS versions but in the same thread you mention maint-2.1or maint-2.2.
So a different model could be maintaining old versions in a sliding window fashion (e.g. critical issues would be backported to the last 6 months worth of git releases).

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself here :)

Anyway, long story short. We're interested to help but I'm not entirely sure what that would look like at the moment. Are there formed ideas floating around or would you be looking for some form of proposal instead?

Cheers,
Stefan

#15 lore raw
Quoted 4 lines · Stefan Saasen

Anyway, long story short. We're interested to help but I'm not entirely sure what that would look like at the moment. Are there formed ideas floating around or would you be looking for some form of proposal instead?

I am not proposing anything or looking for proposals myself, actually. It is just somebody expressed interest in having tested older maintenance track that is kept alive in the past, so I was merely trying to help connect you with that old thread.

If those who are interested in having such LTS track(s) need something specific from me, and if it will not be unrealistic maintenance burden, I am willing to help. That's all.

For example, LTS group for whatever reason may nominate 2.2.x track as a base that they want to keep alive longer than other maintenance tracks and promise to test changes to them to keep it stable. Then I can help the effort by making sure people's bugfix patches would apply down to 2.2.x track (often people make mistake of using newer facility to fix or test the fix for an ancient bug, and bugfix topic branch ends up forked at a point much newer than where it should be).

#16 lore raw
In reply to Jeff King
Quoted 2 lines · Jeff King

Either way, though, I do not think it is the upstream Git project's problem.

The commit to pick where to queue the fixes actually is my problem, as I have this illusion that I'd be helping these derived works by making it easier for them to merge, not cherry-pick.

But I would imagine that they may go the cherry-pick route anyway, in which case I may be wasting my time worrying about them X-<.

#17 lore raw
Quoted 8 lines · Junio C Hamano
Quoted 2 lines · Jeff King

Either way, though, I do not think it is the upstream Git project's problem.

The commit to pick where to queue the fixes actually is my problem, as I have this illusion that I'd be helping these derived works by making it easier for them to merge, not cherry-pick.

True, I had just meant the actual rolling of the releases.

Quoted 2 lines

But I would imagine that they may go the cherry-pick route anyway, in which case I may be wasting my time worrying about them X-<.

FWIW, I typically cherry-pick rather than merge. The resulting history is not as nice, but it means I don't have to think as hard about the history when doing so. It also means that topics may not be as well tested (e.g., they may have been implicitly relying on some other thing that happened upstream that I did _not_ cherry-pick). But we treat even cherry-picked upstream topics as their own feature branches, and do our normal internal testing and review.

-Peff