Sharing drives.

DISCUSSION geoff 5 participants 9 messages Oct 2, 2002 – Oct 19, 2002 1 message not in the archive

Share & tools

geoff

author

2002-10-02 07:52 UTC #0 lore raw

I have a dual-boot Linux system. Debian 3.0 (Woody), and SuSE 8.0 (Prof)., on separate drives sharing a common machine (Pentium III at 600 MHz).

Both work well, and I am enjoying learning the differences between them, running
them as separate alternatives.

Would it be inadvisable to have a third hard disk drive on the same shared machine,
which is mountable on either distro, in order to enable files from (say) Debian to be transfered
into SuSE, (or vice-vers) or would I be asking for trouble ?

Can I use a common device (say) /dev/hdc as a common part of two partition systems ?

A possible use would be to YaST/ RPM into Debian, or APT/ DEB into SuSE.

Best regards,

Geoff Bagley
G3FHL.

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chuck gelm

2002-10-02 12:31 UTC #1 lore raw

Hi, Geoff:

Yes. Although the files (filesystem(s)) are not 'transferred'.
The filesystem is 'mounted'.
Each OS must be capable of mounting the filesystem's type:
second extended, reiserfs, third extended, minix, fat, vfat,
...whatever.

I get the impression that each of the two distributions you mention
are on a separate physical hard drive. This is not necessary. One can have multiple operating systems on a single physical drive. Each would need a separate partition, AFAIK.

HTH, Chuck

Quoted 21 lines · geoff

I have a dual-boot Linux system. Debian 3.0 (Woody), and SuSE 8.0 (Prof)., on separate drives sharing a common machine (Pentium III at 600 MHz).
Both work well, and I am enjoying learning the differences between them, running
them as separate alternatives.
Would it be inadvisable to have a third hard disk drive on the same shared machine,
which is mountable on either distro, in order to enable files from (say) Debian to be transfered
into SuSE, (or vice-vers) or would I be asking for trouble ?
Can I use a common device (say) /dev/hdc as a common part of two partition systems ?
A possible use would be to YaST/ RPM into Debian, or APT/ DEB into SuSE.
Best regards,

Quoted 8 lines

Geoff Bagley
G3FHL.
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LL Phillips

2002-10-03 14:09 UTC #2 lore raw

Regarding the statement "Each would need a separate partition, AFAIK" I've recently considered dual booting my W98SE hard drive which is 40G total size with only 20G used made up of C: primary partition and D,E,F,G,H all logical drives in one extended partition (each around 3-6G each)

When I put in my W98SE boot disk to make a second PRIMARY partition I was not allowed because fdisk told me there was already a primary partition existing.

If I wanted to have W98SE, Debian and Peanut Linux all on the same drive how would I go about that. Was I wrong to put in the W98SE boot / rescue disk. Lindows (I'm an insider /pre-general-release-by-subscription user) will install beside windows if one has space on the drive, (it is called a friendly install). I felt it was too risky to proceed because I didn't want to damage my W98SE main everyday machine. Asus A7V motherboard.

Would you advise using a Linux distribution root / boot diskette combination to set up my hard drive. (I've ruined about 8 laptop drives in the past trying so am nervous).
Lorraine

Quoted 46 lines · chuck gelm

Hi, Geoff:
Yes. Although the files (filesystem(s)) are not 'transferred'.
The filesystem is 'mounted'.
Each OS must be capable of mounting the filesystem's type:
second extended, reiserfs, third extended, minix, fat, vfat,
...whatever.
I get the impression that each of the two distributions you mention
are on a separate physical hard drive. This is not necessary. One can have multiple operating systems on a single physical drive. Each would need a separate partition, AFAIK.
HTH, Chuck
Quoted 21 lines · geoff
I have a dual-boot Linux system. Debian 3.0 (Woody), and SuSE 8.0 (Prof)., on separate drives sharing a common machine (Pentium III at 600 MHz).
Both work well, and I am enjoying learning the differences between them, running
them as separate alternatives.
Would it be inadvisable to have a third hard disk drive on the same shared machine,
which is mountable on either distro, in order to enable files from (say) Debian to be transfered
into SuSE, (or vice-vers) or would I be asking for trouble ?
Can I use a common device (say) /dev/hdc as a common part of two partition systems ?
A possible use would be to YaST/ RPM into Debian, or APT/ DEB into SuSE.
Best regards,
Quoted 8 lines
Geoff Bagley
G3FHL.
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Quoted 5 lines

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James Miller

2002-10-03 17:02 UTC #3 lore raw

Quoted 18 lines · LL Phillips

Regarding the statement "Each would need a separate partition, AFAIK" I've recently considered dual booting my W98SE hard drive which is 40G total size with only 20G used made up of C: primary partition and D,E,F,G,H all logical drives in one extended partition (each around 3-6G each)
When I put in my W98SE boot disk to make a second PRIMARY partition I was not allowed because fdisk told me there was already a primary partition existing.
If I wanted to have W98SE, Debian and Peanut Linux all on the same drive how would I go about that. Was I wrong to put in the W98SE boot / rescue disk. Lindows (I'm an insider /pre-general-release-by-subscription user) will install beside windows if one has space on the drive, (it is called a friendly install). I felt it was too risky to proceed because I didn't want to damage my W98SE main everyday machine. Asus A7V motherboard.

Quoted 5 lines

Would you advise using a Linux distribution root / boot diskette combination to set up my hard drive. (I've ruined about 8 laptop drives in the past trying so am nervous).
Lorraine

Lorraine:

It would help if you were to explain a bit more about what you're trying to do. Perhaps you know already that Linux does not need to be installed to a primary partition? And yes, M$'s fdisk is very limited in the way you can manipulate your hard drive. M$ would like for you to have only one primary partition on your drive (and would like for it ot be the exclusive property of Windows, in case you didn't know :) ). Of the OS's you mention, perhaps only Peanut Linux would require a primary partition insofar as, as I understand it, it is meant to install to a DOS partition. If it does *not* require a primary partition, there are other utilities (freeware/shareware) that will allow you to create either primary or extended DOS (FAT whatever) partitions. I could recommend some, if that would help you. Unfortunately, partitioning drives is *always* tricky, and there is always some risk of data loss. Commercial progs with a nice gui (e.g., Partition Magic) give some greater sense of security inasmuch as they give you a visual representation of what they're doing. But even they warn about the potential for data loss.

Based on some more information about precisely what you'd like to do, perhaps I can make some more helpful suggestions. Sorry if I've misunderstood your inquiry.

James

LL Phillips

2002-10-11 11:19 UTC #4 lore raw

Quoted 1 line

Perhaps you know already that Linux does not need to be installed

to a primary partition?

Hi James
No, I must sheepishly confess I did not realize that.
I always tried to partition whichever hard drive I was using and give whatever flavour I was using, a primary partition.

Partition Magic v 3 (very old I realize but it's what I've got) is not graphically showing all the logical drives I made in my W98SE install; and when I tried one of its stand alone DOS programs (PARTINFO dot exe) I was given an error so I stopped for the time being.
Will get back with the exact details later.

Instead of working any more with my drive and possibly losing all instead of gaining access to the other 20 free gigabytes, I downloaded KNOPPIX and am ecstatic to have been able to get it to run exactly as the website said it would. It even found my network card and jumped onto the internet using my 3Com hub and Efficient Speedstream high speed modem from Bell Sympatico. This is a first for me. Even Lindows wouldn't do that for me, and that is supposed to be it's strong point.

I'm beginning to suspect I was very close a lot of times with other versions, but was tripped up by the network card(s). Lorraine

Quoted 50 lines · James Miller

Quoted 18 lines · LL Phillips
Regarding the statement "Each would need a separate partition, AFAIK" I've recently considered dual booting my W98SE hard drive which is 40G total size with only 20G used made up of C: primary partition and D,E,F,G,H all logical drives in one extended partition (each around 3-6G each)
When I put in my W98SE boot disk to make a second PRIMARY partition I was not allowed because fdisk told me there was already a primary partition existing.
If I wanted to have W98SE, Debian and Peanut Linux all on the same drive how would I go about that. Was I wrong to put in the W98SE boot / rescue disk. Lindows (I'm an insider /pre-general-release-by-subscription user) will install beside windows if one has space on the drive, (it is called a friendly install). I felt it was too risky to proceed because I didn't want to damage my W98SE main everyday machine. Asus A7V motherboard.
Quoted 5 lines
Would you advise using a Linux distribution root / boot diskette combination to set up my hard drive. (I've ruined about 8 laptop drives in the past trying so am nervous).
Lorraine
Lorraine:
It would help if you were to explain a bit more about what you're trying to do. Perhaps you know already that Linux does not need to be installed to a primary partition? And yes, M$'s fdisk is very limited in the way you can manipulate your hard drive. M$ would like for you to have only one primary partition on your drive (and would like for it ot be the exclusive property of Windows, in case you didn't know :) ). Of the OS's you mention, perhaps only Peanut Linux would require a primary partition insofar as, as I understand it, it is meant to install to a DOS partition. If it does *not* require a primary partition, there are other utilities (freeware/shareware) that will allow you to create either primary or extended DOS (FAT whatever) partitions. I could recommend some, if that would help you. Unfortunately, partitioning drives is *always* tricky, and there is always some risk of data loss. Commercial progs with a nice gui (e.g., Partition Magic) give some greater sense of security inasmuch as they give you a visual representation of what they're doing. But even they warn about the potential for data loss.
Based on some more information about precisely what you'd like to do, perhaps I can make some more helpful suggestions. Sorry if I've misunderstood your inquiry.

Quoted 7 lines

James
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Chuck Gelm

2002-10-03 21:33 UTC #5 lore raw

In reply to LL Phillips

Quoted 10 lines · LL Phillips

Regarding the statement "Each would need a separate partition, AFAIK" I've recently considered dual booting my W98SE hard drive which is 40G total size with only 20G used made up of C: primary partition and D,E,F,G,H all logical drives in one extended partition (each around 3-6G each)
When I put in my W98SE boot disk to make a second PRIMARY partition I was not allowed because fdisk told me there was already a primary partition existing.

Probably a few reasons:
- the disk has no room for another partition, PRIMARY or otherwise.
- perhaps, once an 'extended' partition is created,
no further 'primary' partitions can be created.
- Perhaps [MS|PC]DOS cannot create a second primary partition.
- perhaps you should use a 'linux' fdisk to create partitions to install linux. ;-)
/dev/hda1 20G /WIN98SE
/dev/hda2 20G extended

/dev/hda3  3G /Debian '/'
/dev/hda6  3G /Peanut '/'
/dev/hda7  3G /share7 ;shared filesystem
/dev/hda8  3G /share8 ;whatever filesystem that both Debian and Peanut
                      ;can r/w.

...
Install either of the linux distributions last as Windows(r)
overwrites the MBR.
Linux 'lilo' can boot with a menu to choose which o/s to boot
and a default o/s to boot after # seconds.

Quoted 3 lines

If I wanted to have W98SE, Debian and Peanut Linux all on the same drive how would I go about that. Was I wrong to put in the W98SE boot / rescue disk.

I recommend using linux fdisk to create/modify partitions to install
the linux o/s into. Also, create/modify them to be a linux type; 'second extended' and 'swap' are the only filesystems the I have used (Type 83 linux native & type 82 linux swap).

Yes, you can install linux into DOS type partitions, however I do not recommend it.

Yes, linux can read/write DOS/WIN (2.x, 3.x,9x, ME filesystems (but can only read WIN-NT & WIN-2000 filesystems).

Lindows (I'm an insider

Quoted 4 lines

/pre-general-release-by-subscription user) will install beside windows if one has space on the drive, (it is called a friendly install). I felt it was too risky to proceed because I didn't want to damage my W98SE main everyday machine. Asus A7V motherboard.

You might damage your W98SE files, but I doubt that you will damage your 'machine'. :-|

Quoted 3 lines

Would you advise using a Linux distribution root / boot diskette combination to set up my hard drive. (I've ruined about 8 laptop drives in the past trying so am nervous).

If you have a BIOS that can boot from a CD-ROM drive,
I recommend installing linux from a bootable CD-ROM disk. ;-)

I'm hoping you mean that after you created linux filesystems
on a hard drive, Windows could not recognize the drive. :-|

I'd like to hear more about how a drive was damaged by a linux
boot/root diskette. Sounds like a 'Slackware' install to me. If you 'linux fdisk' a hard drive and place only linux type partitions on it, it will not be recognized by DOS-Windows*. If you use linux fdisk to create DOS/WIN partitions, DOS/WIN will recognize it (I think it will recognize the first partition and any sequential partitions that are DOS/WIN, but no further partitions after the first non-DOS/WIN partition).
;-)

Quoted 6 lines

Lorraine
Quoted 3 lines · chuck gelm
Hi, Geoff:

LL Phillips

2002-10-16 19:28 UTC #6 lore raw

Hi Chuck
I guess you are in UK ?
Had you been in Canada or U.S. I would have offered to send you 4 of these drives as I've put them in a plastic bag in disgust. By the time I had finished they were making grinding noises.

You are correct in that it was Slackware I was using. Now that I've discovered Knoppix I anticipate I will be a lot less dangerous when I get near a hard drive. Knoppix can boot off a bootable CD and run inside RAM. It will make a swap file on a DOS partition if it can find one and you give it permission.

Working on getting BootIt as recommended in this list and will report as I progress. Hopefully I will not ruin any more drives. Lorraine

Quoted 81 lines · Chuck Gelm

Quoted 10 lines · LL Phillips
Regarding the statement "Each would need a separate partition, AFAIK" I've recently considered dual booting my W98SE hard drive which is 40G total size with only 20G used made up of C: primary partition and D,E,F,G,H all logical drives in one extended partition (each around 3-6G each)
When I put in my W98SE boot disk to make a second PRIMARY partition I was not allowed because fdisk told me there was already a primary partition existing.
Probably a few reasons:
- the disk has no room for another partition, PRIMARY or otherwise.
- perhaps, once an 'extended' partition is created,
no further 'primary' partitions can be created.
- Perhaps [MS|PC]DOS cannot create a second primary partition.
- perhaps you should use a 'linux' fdisk to create partitions to install linux. ;-)
/dev/hda1 20G /WIN98SE
/dev/hda2 20G extended
/dev/hda3  3G /Debian '/'
/dev/hda6  3G /Peanut '/'
/dev/hda7  3G /share7 ;shared filesystem
/dev/hda8  3G /share8 ;whatever filesystem that both Debian and Peanut
                      ;can r/w.
...
Install either of the linux distributions last as Windows(r)
overwrites the MBR.
Linux 'lilo' can boot with a menu to choose which o/s to boot
and a default o/s to boot after # seconds.
Quoted 3 lines
If I wanted to have W98SE, Debian and Peanut Linux all on the same drive how would I go about that. Was I wrong to put in the W98SE boot / rescue disk.
I recommend using linux fdisk to create/modify partitions to install
the linux o/s into. Also, create/modify them to be a linux type; 'second extended' and 'swap' are the only filesystems the I have used (Type 83 linux native & type 82 linux swap).
Yes, you can install linux into DOS type partitions, however I do not recommend it.
Yes, linux can read/write DOS/WIN (2.x, 3.x,9x, ME filesystems (but can only read WIN-NT & WIN-2000 filesystems).
Lindows (I'm an insider
Quoted 4 lines
/pre-general-release-by-subscription user) will install beside windows if one has space on the drive, (it is called a friendly install). I felt it was too risky to proceed because I didn't want to damage my W98SE main everyday machine. Asus A7V motherboard.
You might damage your W98SE files, but I doubt that you will damage your 'machine'. :-|
Quoted 3 lines
Would you advise using a Linux distribution root / boot diskette combination to set up my hard drive. (I've ruined about 8 laptop drives in the past trying so am nervous).
If you have a BIOS that can boot from a CD-ROM drive,
I recommend installing linux from a bootable CD-ROM disk. ;-)
I'm hoping you mean that after you created linux filesystems
on a hard drive, Windows could not recognize the drive. :-|
I'd like to hear more about how a drive was damaged by a linux
boot/root diskette. Sounds like a 'Slackware' install to me. If you 'linux fdisk' a hard drive and place only linux type partitions on it, it will not be recognized by DOS-Windows*. If you use linux fdisk to create DOS/WIN partitions, DOS/WIN will recognize it (I think it will recognize the first partition and any sequential partitions that are DOS/WIN, but no further partitions after the first non-DOS/WIN partition).
;-)
Quoted 4 lines
Lorraine
Quoted 1 line · chuck gelm

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 2 lines
Quoted 2 lines
Hi, Geoff:
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LL Phillips

2002-10-19 20:05 UTC #8 lore raw

Hi Hal
Thanks for the tips. It was the OPERATOR's fault I'm sure. Too much
enthusiasm combined with a thick skull. The drives were working fine
when I got them. I did find them delicate to work with. Went through
a couple adapters which quit on me too. I'm moving up soon to possible motherboard destruction. Looking to flash the bios on EPOX P55-BT.

With Linux I've become less dangerous now that I've discovered and downloaded KNOPPIX which runs in RAM; and just read today that SUSE has a LIVE CD version as well. Must investigate. Lorraine

<snip>

Quoted 11 lines

Why software problems could cause drives to become
"grinders" is beyond me, except that laptop/notebook drives are 2" jobs so you can visualize all that capacity in a very small and compact space.. They've _got_ to be less rugged than normal..
Anyway good luck and hope you get things in order.
Hal - in Terra Alta, WV - Slackware GNU/Linux 8.0 (2.4.13)
[email protected] | [email protected]..
.

Ray Olszewski

2002-10-02 16:09 UTC #9 lore raw

In reply to geoff

I can't speak to "inadvisable", but the approach you ask about is perfectly feasible. A common use of this sort of setup is to have a /home partition that is common to the two distros.

It is more than you need, though. Each distro can mount the other's root partition (and its other partitions, depending on what you created) directly on any convenient mount point(s).

For example, if you have Debian's root (/) partition on /dev/hda1 and SuSE's on /dev/hdb1, you can mount the SuSE partition on Debian with these two commands (run as root):

mkdir /mnt/SuSE_root
mount -t ext2 /dev/hdb1 /mnt/SuSE_root

The first line just creates the mount point (assuming /mnt already exists, as it usually does) and need be done only once. The second does the actual mount and needs to be done whenever you reboot (modify the -t argument if you use a different filesystem type). Or, once you've created the mount point, you can add a line to /etc/fstab to automount it every time (a look at /etc/fstab will probably be enough for you to figure this part out).

BTW, for converting packages between .rpm and .deb, you might want to look at "alien".

Quoted 13 lines · geoff

I have a dual-boot Linux system. Debian 3.0 (Woody), and SuSE 8.0 (Prof)., on separate drives sharing a common machine (Pentium III at 600 MHz).
Both work well, and I am enjoying learning the differences between them, running
them as separate alternatives.
Would it be inadvisable to have a third hard disk drive on the same shared machine,
which is mountable on either distro, in order to enable files from (say) Debian to be transfered
into SuSE, (or vice-vers) or would I be asking for trouble ?

Quoted 4 lines

Can I use a common device (say) /dev/hdc as a common part of two partition systems ?
A possible use would be to YaST/ RPM into Debian, or APT/ DEB into SuSE.

--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski -- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA [email protected]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------