POSIX conformance document
POSIX [1] specifies that conforming implementations shall come with a "conformance document" that describes "implementation-defined" characteristics [2]. Two such example conformance documents are [3], [4].
For Linux (or any Linux distro), I cannot find such a document on the web.
Is such a document only considered useful for business/marketing purposes? Isn't there some value in it also for regular users and developers?
Will there be some effort to create such a document for the upcoming POSIX.1-2024 standard, for Linux and the GNU libraries and tools?
I'm asking because I've collected the answers for all *gettext() functions and the msgfmt and xgettext programs (that will be part of this new POSIX), but I don't know where to best document them. Likely in the manual of GNU libc and GNU gettext, right?
Bruno
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX
[2] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799.2018edition/basedefs/V1_chap02.html
[3] https://empyreal96.github.io/nt-info-depot/SourceLevel/base/subsys/posix/pcd.doc
[4] https://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.5.0SP1.update/com.qnx.doc.neutrino_prog/posix_conformance.html
Alejandro Colomar
maintainerHi Bruno!
Quoted 5 lines · Bruno Haible
POSIX [1] specifies that conforming implementations shall come with a "conformance document" that describes "implementation-defined" characteristics [2]. Two such example conformance documents are [3], [4].
For Linux (or any Linux distro), I cannot find such a document on the web.
Most Linux distros are not UNIX certified. There have been a few, from what I read, but don't know much about them. I found one that is in the Wikipedia, and which has links to such a document:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspur_K-UX>
<https://web.archive.org/web/20151210194928/http://www.opengroup.org/csq/repository/RID%3Dinspur/XY1/1.html>
That one is UNIX 03 certified, which is POSIX.1-2001 + XSI extensions.
Maybe that helps.
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Is such a document only considered useful for business/marketing purposes?
Mostly.
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Isn't there some value in it also for regular users and developers?
The documentation for each API usually documents the implementation- defined behavior, and differences to other systems. We don't have it centralized in a single document, but we have something.
While I don't see much usefulness for myself as a user in having a centralized document for that, I can't discard usefulness for others, or for myself at a different time.
Quoted 2 lines
Will there be some effort to create such a document for the upcoming POSIX.1-2024 standard, for Linux and the GNU libraries and tools?
Heh, I suppose not, unless some company sponsors it, or some individual feels a strong need for it. But just guessing.
Quoted 5 lines
I'm asking because I've collected the answers for all
*gettext()functions and the msgfmt and xgettext programs (that will be part of this new POSIX), but I don't know where to best document them. Likely in the manual of GNU libc and GNU gettext, right?
Yeah, that could be a good place for it. The manual pages are in GNU gettext:
$ apt-file find -x 'man/man3/[a-z]*gettext.3' gettext-base: /usr/share/man/man3/dcgettext.3.gz gettext-base: /usr/share/man/man3/dcngettext.3.gz gettext-base: /usr/share/man/man3/dgettext.3.gz gettext-base: /usr/share/man/man3/dngettext.3.gz gettext-base: /usr/share/man/man3/gettext.3.gz gettext-base: /usr/share/man/man3/ngettext.3.gz
In the Linux man-pages project I'm documenting differences with POSIX or the BSDs in the VERSIONS section (see man-pages(7)); sometimes in CAVEATS, if it's a tricky detail; it depends. You could send a patch for their manual pages adding that section documenting the differences with POSIX, or the implementation details.
Quoted 6 lines
Bruno
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX
[2] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799.2018edition/basedefs/V1_chap02.html
[3] https://empyreal96.github.io/nt-info-depot/SourceLevel/base/subsys/posix/pcd.doc
[4] https://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.5.0SP1.update/com.qnx.doc.neutrino_prog/posix_conformance.html
Have a lovely night!
Alex
Signature · 1 line
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
Hi Alejandro,
Quoted 4 lines
Quoted 1 line
Is such a document only considered useful for business/marketing purposes?
Mostly.
Quoted 8 lines
Quoted 1 line
Isn't there some value in it also for regular users and developers?
The documentation for each API usually documents the implementation- defined behavior, and differences to other systems. We don't have it centralized in a single document, but we have something.
While I don't see much usefulness for myself as a user in having a centralized document for that, ...
OK, so let's discard the idea of a centralized document, and document it where appropriate. Documenting it in individual package documentations is also easier for our community.
Quoted 5 lines
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Will there be some effort to create such a document for the upcoming POSIX.1-2024 standard, for Linux and the GNU libraries and tools?
Heh, I suppose not, unless some company sponsors it, or some individual feels a strong need for it. But just guessing.
I agree; there is no reason why anyone should make this effort in 2024 after it wasn't done in 2018.
Quoted 3 lines
In the Linux man-pages project I'm documenting differences with POSIX or the BSDs in the VERSIONS section (see man-pages(7)); sometimes in CAVEATS, if it's a tricky detail; it depends.
Thanks for the pointer.
VERSIONS or STANDARDS (previously: CONFORMING TO) appear adequate for documenting implementation-defined behaviour.
For texinfo documentation, I guess it will be up to the individual package maintainer.
Bruno
Quoted 17 lines · Bruno Haible
POSIX [1] specifies that conforming implementations shall come with a "conformance document" that describes "implementation-defined" characteristics [2]. Two such example conformance documents are [3], [4].
For Linux (or any Linux distro), I cannot find such a document on the web.
Is such a document only considered useful for business/marketing purposes? Isn't there some value in it also for regular users and developers?
Will there be some effort to create such a document for the upcoming POSIX.1-2024 standard, for Linux and the GNU libraries and tools?
I'm asking because I've collected the answers for all
*gettext()functions and the msgfmt and xgettext programs (that will be part of this new POSIX), but I don't know where to best document them. Likely in the manual of GNU libc and GNU gettext, right?
Quoted 6 lines
Bruno
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX
[2] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799.2018edition/basedefs/V1_chap02.html
[3] https://empyreal96.github.io/nt-info-depot/SourceLevel/base/subsys/posix/pcd.doc
[4] https://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.5.0SP1.update/com.qnx.doc.neutrino_prog/posix_conformance.html
Hi Bruno,
You might want to sign up to the Open Group to access the Austin Group (POSIX) documents (including latest drafts to update your info and documents), become a member, email your questions, and participate as a documentor and implementor on their list:
https://www.opengroup.org/austin/
You can also view their discussions and document defect issues on web archive:
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
and get updates from an Atom/RSS Feed (e.g. Firefox/Chrome/... bookmark feeds):
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml
without subscribing to their ML.
[Alex has contacted them about POSIX man pages, and hopefully may get info about updating POSIX man pages to 2024: latest draft standard has been approved by IEEE and Open Group Board, internal publication of the standard with final front matter is due 2024-06-14, ISO/IEC ballot closes 2024-06-28.]
Signature · 6 lines
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis Calgary, Alberta, Canada
La perfection est atteinte Perfection is achieved
non pas lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à ajouter not when there is no more to add
mais lorsqu'il n'y a plus rien à retirer but when there is no more to cut
-- Antoine de Saint-ExupéryAlejandro Colomar
maintainerHi Brian,
Quoted 2 lines · Brian Inglis
On 2024-05-31 15:21, Bruno Haible wrote:
[Alex has contacted them about POSIX man pages,
This is a reference to
<https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/[email protected]/T/#u>
I'll ping Andrew Josey about it.
Quoted 2 lines
and hopefully may get info
about updating POSIX man pages to 2024:
I hope they'll do.
Quoted 4 lines
latest draft standard has been
approved by IEEE and Open Group Board, internal publication of the standard with final front matter is due 2024-06-14, ISO/IEC ballot closes 2024-06-28.]
Have a lovely day!
Alex
Signature · 1 line
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
Quoted 9 lines · Brian Inglis
You might want to sign up to the Open Group to access the Austin Group (POSIX) documents (including latest drafts to update your info and documents), become a member, email your questions, and participate as a documentor and implementor on their list:
https://www.opengroup.org/austin/
You can also view their discussions and document defect issues on web archive:
Quoted 7 lines
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
and get updates from an Atom/RSS Feed (e.g. Firefox/Chrome/... bookmark feeds):
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.xml
without subscribing to their ML.
Thanks for the instructions. For simple defects, I occasionally do this. For defects with a possibly complex treatment (due to different standards and/or different incompatible vendors) I prefer to go through Eric Blake, who has more experience in this area than I have.
Bruno