Message to Stan Hoeppner
Dear Stan,
<[email protected]>: host greer.hardwarefreak.com[65.41.216.221]
said: 550 5.7.1 <mailsrv1.zmi.at[212.69.164.54]>: Client host
rejected: We do not accept mail from .at domains (in reply to RCPT TO command)
I don't know what experiences you've had, but Austria is not that bad. We have Mozart, Walzer, the Danube, and Vienna is worlds most beautiful city to live in (search "vienna best city in the world" on Google finds
http://www.citymayors.com/features/quality_survey.html and others).
Maybe you could rethink that policy? Spam rate is quite low with .at domains, compared to others.
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mit freundlichen Grüssen, Michael Monnerie, Ing. BSc it-management Internet Services http://proteger.at [gesprochen: Prot-e-schee] Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 ****** Aktuelles Radiointerview! ****** http://www.it-podcast.at/aktuelle-sendung.html // Wir haben im Moment zwei Häuser zu verkaufen: // http://zmi.at/langegg/ // http://zmi.at/haus2009/
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13.08.2010 15:00, Michael Monnerie пишет:
Quoted 11 lines
Dear Stan,
<[email protected]>: host greer.hardwarefreak.com[65.41.216.221]
said: 550 5.7.1 <mailsrv1.zmi.at[212.69.164.54]>: Client host
rejected: We do not accept mail from .at domains (in reply to RCPT TO command)I don't know what experiences you've had, but Austria is not that bad. We have Mozart, Walzer, the Danube, and Vienna is worlds most beautiful city to live in (search "vienna best city in the world" on Google finds
http://www.citymayors.com/features/quality_survey.html and others).
Heh. I can say something similar about Russia as well (I received similar reject to my email too, telling me about .ru domains). But I don't think it counts at all in this context - it's a tradeoff, everyone decides for himself if he wants to accept a small amount of email or block all spam outright and deal with a few possible problem cases...
/mjt
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Quoted 6 lines · On Freitag, 13. August 2010 Michael Tokarev wrote:
Heh. I can say something similar about Russia as well (I received similar reject to my email too, telling me about .ru domains). But I don't think it counts at all in this context - it's a tradeoff, everyone decides for himself if he wants to accept a small amount of email or block all spam outright and deal with a few possible problem cases...
That explanation was more a joke than seriously meant, I apologize for the fuzz - it was a "not too hidden" ad for Austria and Vienna ;-)
Still, my pledge for removing .at blacklisting was meant seriously.
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mit freundlichen Grüssen, Michael Monnerie, Ing. BSc it-management Internet Services http://proteger.at [gesprochen: Prot-e-schee] Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 ****** Aktuelles Radiointerview! ****** http://www.it-podcast.at/aktuelle-sendung.html // Wir haben im Moment zwei Häuser zu verkaufen: // http://zmi.at/langegg/ // http://zmi.at/haus2009/
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Quoted 10 lines · Michael Monnerie
Quoted 6 lines · On Freitag, 13. August 2010 Michael Tokarev wrote:
Heh. I can say something similar about Russia as well (I received similar reject to my email too, telling me about .ru domains). But I don't think it counts at all in this context - it's a tradeoff, everyone decides for himself if he wants to accept a small amount of email or block all spam outright and deal with a few possible problem cases...
That explanation was more a joke than seriously meant, I apologize for the fuzz - it was a "not too hidden" ad for Austria and Vienna ;-)
And out in the West it's even more beautiful..
/me runs and hides
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Michael Monnerie put forth on 8/13/2010 6:00 AM:
Quoted 7 lines
Dear Stan,
<[email protected]>: host greer.hardwarefreak.com[65.41.216.221]
said: 550 5.7.1 <mailsrv1.zmi.at[212.69.164.54]>: Client host
rejected: We do not accept mail from .at domains (in reply to RCPT TO command)
Quoted 7 lines
I don't know what experiences you've had, but Austria is not that bad. We have Mozart, Walzer, the Danube, and Vienna is worlds most beautiful city to live in (search "vienna best city in the world" on Google finds
http://www.citymayors.com/features/quality_survey.html and others).Maybe you could rethink that policy? Spam rate is quite low with .at domains, compared to others.
Fixed. Sorry about that Michael. I had an old pcre that checked the SMTP client rDNS host name against a bunch of ccTLDs I received spam from some time ago. I forgot to disable it when I moved to a much more effective and a bit more sane anti-spam configuration. I'm surprised someone such as yourself hadn't tripped this before now with all the lists I subscribe to.
That said, I do still block some entire countries' IP space using ipdeny.com info, such as China, Russia, Korea, Malaysia, and a handful of others from which I'll likely never receive legit mail. I might from Russia due to some of my list memberships.
The "Reply-to-list" option in one's MUA is one's friend. Reply-all causes rows like this and just duplicates messages needlessly. There are times when a reply-all is needed, but usually that's not the case. Only when non-list members are CC'd in a thread do I hit the "reply-all" button.
Anyway, enough about mail management and my somewhat draconian anti-spam policies. ;)
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Am Samstag 14 August 2010 schrieb Stan Hoeppner:
Quoted 2 lines
Michael Monnerie put forth on 8/13/2010 6:00 AM:
Quoted 1 line
Dear Stan,
Hi!
Quoted 21 lines
Quoted 5 lines
<[email protected]>: host greer.hardwarefreak.com[65.41.216.221]
said: 550 5.7.1 <mailsrv1.zmi.at[212.69.164.54]>: Client host
rejected: We do not accept mail from .at domains (in reply to RCPT TO command)Quoted 8 lines
I don't know what experiences you've had, but Austria is not that bad. We have Mozart, Walzer, the Danube, and Vienna is worlds most beautiful city to live in (search "vienna best city in the world" on Google finds http://www.citymayors.com/features/quality_survey.html
and others).Maybe you could rethink that policy? Spam rate is quite low with .at domains, compared to others.
Fixed. Sorry about that Michael. I had an old pcre that checked the SMTP client rDNS host name against a bunch of ccTLDs I received spam from some time ago. I forgot to disable it when I moved to a much more effective and a bit more sane anti-spam configuration. I'm surprised someone such as yourself hadn't tripped this before now with all the lists I subscribe to.
Quoted 4 lines
That said, I do still block some entire countries' IP space using ipdeny.com info, such as China, Russia, Korea, Malaysia, and a handful of others from which I'll likely never receive legit mail. I might from Russia due to some of my list memberships.
Hmmm, I use policyd-weight to weight several blacklists instead of blocking complete country IP spaces unconditionally and together with some local spam filtering with CRM114 at home it keeps spam gets through rate very comfortable low for more than a year already. I estimate I do not have more than 20 spam mails marked as unsure in a whole week.The rate is a bit higher at work, but still quite comfortable, where Zimbra does the additional spam filtering I think with a learnable Spamassassin setup. But most mail is blocked by policyd-weight at SMTP level anyway.
So I do not see any need to block complete IP spaces, but your mileage may vary.
Ciao,
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Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7
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Re: Message to Stan - again
In reply to Michael MonnerieSorry to bother all again, I just wanted to inform Stan that his filter still has a problem:
<[email protected]>: host greer.hardwarefreak.com[65.41.216.221]
said: 554 5.7.1 <mailsrv1.zmi.at[212.69.164.54]>: Client host rejected:
Access denied (in reply to RCPT TO command)
Your .at filter seems removed, but another one still hits (me).
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mit freundlichen Grüssen, Michael Monnerie, Ing. BSc it-management Internet Services http://proteger.at [gesprochen: Prot-e-schee] Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 ****** Aktuelles Radiointerview! ****** http://www.it-podcast.at/aktuelle-sendung.html // Wir haben im Moment zwei Häuser zu verkaufen: // http://zmi.at/langegg/ // http://zmi.at/haus2009/
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[META-LIST] Now: perennial "reply-to-all" -- Was: Message to Stan - again
Michael Monnerie put forth on 8/15/2010 1:52 PM:
Quoted 8 lines
Sorry to bother all again, I just wanted to inform Stan that his filter still has a problem:
<[email protected]>: host greer.hardwarefreak.com[65.41.216.221]
said: 554 5.7.1 <mailsrv1.zmi.at[212.69.164.54]>: Client host rejected:
Access denied (in reply to RCPT TO command)Your .at filter seems removed, but another one still hits (me).
Apparently you're just in the wrong part of the world Michael. :) Ok, it should be "fixed" now. BTW...
Why does "everyone" on this list "reply-to-all" when 99% of the time it is totally unnecessary, redundant, and potentially ruffles a sender's feathers, as in this case? TTBOMK in recent months the only time I saw that "reply-to-all" was necessary was a thread which included the linux-kernel list or someone who wasn't a member of the xfs list. I love you guys and all, and I love XFS, but do I really need _two_ message copies each time someone replies to a thread in which I participated? :) Do I need to be called out in public for a "problem" with my spam filter when one of those two _redundant_ messages gets blocked, even though the other made it through, and always will? :)
I'm on 7 FOSS technical mailing lists, the others being debian-user, dovecot, linux-ide, postfix-users, roundcube, and samba. Of these 7, only xfs and linux-ide routinely suffer the "reply-to-all" syndrome. And of the others, on some, the list OPs will actively scold people when they catch them performing this perennial "reply-to-all" act. Wietse Venema (father of Postfix) in particular gets perturbed by the "reply-to-all" behavior. Not surprising I guess, with him living and breathing SMTP mail for the past ~15 years.
Most MUA's have a built in "reply-to-list" function these days and if not someone usually offers a plug-in. I use it in TBird, first as a plug-in, and now that the function is fully integrated. It works great. Never a problem.
I'm not trying to be a PITA for anyone here. I'm just trying to understand the apparent _need_ to always "reply-to-all" given that it's unnecessary 99% of the time and simply causes problems, some small, others more severe.
P.S. When someone feels slighted by the spam filter of a colleague, the first thing you should do before making a public statement about it is to find a local spammer and physically assault him for an hour or so. Then type your email. If it weren't for the 10s of thousands of folks around the world like the one you just pummeled, my draconian spam filter wouldn't exist. :) Rightly place blame where it _belongs_.
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Re: [META-LIST] Now: perennial "reply-to-all"
Quoted 3 lines · On Montag, 16. August 2010 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
Why does "everyone" on this list "reply-to-all" when 99% of the time
it is totally unnecessary, redundant, and potentially ruffles a sender's feathers, as in this case?
I'm also on several lists, but the only list where reply-to-all is used is this one - so I followed the way it's done here without having questioned why.
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mit freundlichen Grüssen, Michael Monnerie, Ing. BSc it-management Internet Services http://proteger.at [gesprochen: Prot-e-schee] Tel: 0660 / 415 65 31 ****** Aktuelles Radiointerview! ****** http://www.it-podcast.at/aktuelle-sendung.html // Wir haben im Moment zwei Häuser zu verkaufen: // http://zmi.at/langegg/ // http://zmi.at/haus2009/
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Re: [META-LIST] Now: perennial "reply-to-all"
Quoted 8 lines · Michael Monnerie
Quoted 3 lines · On Montag, 16. August 2010 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
Why does "everyone" on this list "reply-to-all" when 99% of the time
it is totally unnecessary, redundant, and potentially ruffles a sender's feathers, as in this case?I'm also on several lists, but the only list where reply-to-all is used is this one - so I followed the way it's done here without having questioned why.
It's done by all Lists in the Linux development universe, and it's the only sane way to handle a list. We don't require people to subsribe to post to the list, and keeping everyone in the To/Cc list means it arrives at those people as well. In addition it allows subscribes that are on tons of lists to prioritize discussions they're actually involved in personally by getting a copy in the inbox that can be replied to ASAP while also having an archived copy in the list folder. Every other way to run a list is simply insane.
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Re: [META-LIST] Now: perennial "reply-to-all"
Christoph Hellwig put forth on 8/17/2010 4:01 AM:
Quoted 10 lines · Michael Monnerie
Quoted 8 lines · On Montag, 16. August 2010 Stan Hoeppner wrote:
Quoted 3 lines
Why does "everyone" on this list "reply-to-all" when 99% of the time
it is totally unnecessary, redundant, and potentially ruffles a sender's feathers, as in this case?I'm also on several lists, but the only list where reply-to-all is used is this one - so I followed the way it's done here without having questioned why.
Quoted 8 lines
It's done by all Lists in the Linux development universe, and it's the only sane way to handle a list. We don't require people to subsribe to post to the list, and keeping everyone in the To/Cc list means it arrives at those people as well. In addition it allows subscribes that are on tons of lists to prioritize discussions they're actually involved in personally by getting a copy in the inbox that can be replied to ASAP while also having an archived copy in the list folder. Every other way to run a list is simply insane.
Thanks Christoph. That makes sense.
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