SSSCA: We're in trouble now
Before anyone remarks about this being Off Topic for the various mailing lists I've sent this to, please think about the effects this could have to Linux. In addition, even though many of you may not be US citizens, the recent happenings with international laws against cybercrime, copy protection and the like could make this US law relevant to you as well, not to mention the impact to your company should you not be able to do business in the US because of such a law. Therefore, it really IS on topic, and the time to think about and act on such things is _BEFORE_ they are written in stone, not after.
In case you haven't heard, the SSSCA is before the Senate Commerce Committee, with a hearing earlier today
(http://slashdot.org/articles/02/03/01/1423248.shtml?tid=103 for the story and several links, including a draft of the bill). The SSSCA, if passed, would basically require that all interactive digital devices, including your PC, have copy protection built in. This protection would not allow digital media from being viewed, copied, transferred, or downloaded if the device is not authorized to do so. The bill also makes it a crime to circumvent the protection, including manufacturing or trafficking in anything that does not include the protection or that would circumvent it.
Even if there is no SSSCA, the entertainment industry as well as the IT industry both agree: we must have copy protection of some kind. While I do not disagree that many movies, songs, and other media are distributed illegally without their owners consent, and that copyright owners need some sort of protection, this is not the way to fight the problem, and doing so can, and probably will, have drastic and far reaching consequences for not only the IT industry, but the entertainment industry and the consumer as well.
Many of us have become increasingly involved with, and dependent upon, Free Software (as in GNU GPL or similar), especially the Linux operating system. This type of software is distributed with the source code, allowing anyone to modify it as they choose and need. Linux has become popular to the point that many companies, especially those that provide some kind of service on or for the Internet, rely upon it heavily. Because of the free nature of Linux, and other Free Software, it is extremely difficult to place actual numbers on how many systems are out there employing such software. Some of you, like me, can approximate the number of such systems in your own company or realm of knowledge. So how does this relate to the SSSCA?
As any programmer worth his/her salt will attest, given the resources, anything that can be programmed into a computer can be programmed out, or worked around. In the case of copy protection such as the SSSCA would require, the resources needed for circumventing it is simply the source code for the operating system of the computer, and/or other source code for applications used on the computer (such as one of the many free video/audio players available). Now given the wording of the SSSCA, along with the DMCA and other supporting laws, it stands to reason that such Free Software would suddenly become a target for legislation. Such legislation logically may require such software to be judged illegal. Such a decision may have serious consequences to the IT industry as well as the entertainment industry and the consumer as well. Little may the consumer or entertainment industry know, but much of the technology they rely upon today is provided at low cost by Free Software. Take that software away, and suddenly doing business costs a lot more, and eventually the consumer just will not be willing to pay for it.
Now aside from the consequences to Free Software, what about the consequences to those who do not use such software. Imagine that home movie you shot last weekend on vacation. Now you wish to send that home movie to a relative, friend, whoever, over the Internet, or place it on your web site for all to download. Well, with many of the protection technologies suggested, this would not be possible, or would be extremely difficult. Some of these technologies require digital watermarks to be placed in the media, for one example. CD burners, digital cameras, etc. can not make these watermarks. The copy protection works by checking for such a watermark, and if it does not exist, the system either will not allow the media to be played, or will not allow it to be transmitted over the Internet as the case may be. So much for sending your cousin your latest home movie, or allowing your whole family to see it from your web site. An additional problem is all current media, including CDs and DVDs, you may currently legally own would not work on proposed new CD and DVD players with copy protection hardware. You would not be able to copy CDs, tapes, or anything else that you legally own in order to exercise your right to fair use, so as to listen to that CD on the cassette deck in your car.
I could go on, but I think this is long enough and has given some food for thought. Besides, I have work to do. Election time is near, so think about what that person you are voting for represents. Think about actually writing a letter to a congressman or other legislator, to a magazine (I actually had one published once, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility), newpaper, etc. Many people have the attitude that they can do nothing and make no difference. Well, I say to them they are right, because there are so many people with that attitude, that none of them do anything and they make no difference in doing so. The once that make the difference, are the ones taking a stance, and the ones taking the stance are the ones that are causing these rediculous laws to be passed. Guess who those people are?...
Welcome to The United Corporations of America.
PGA
Signature · 4 lines
Paul G. Allen Owner, Sr. Engineer, Security Specialist Random Logic/Dream Park www.randomlogic.com
Trouble or not. We will defeat this garbage. I will not allow any or my (Canada) country to tell me how to control my own systems let alone my own hardware!
Let them pass it, they won't be able to enforce it. I won't let my Linux kernel become 'tainted' by closed binary drivers and I will really actively get involved in defeating such measures in Linux kernel modules.
Shawn.
Quoted 107 lines · Paul G. Allen
Before anyone remarks about this being Off Topic for the various mailing lists I've sent this to, please think about the effects this could have to Linux. In addition, even though many of you may not be US citizens, the recent happenings with international laws against cybercrime, copy protection and the like could make this US law relevant to you as well, not to mention the impact to your company should you not be able to do business in the US because of such a law. Therefore, it really IS on topic, and the time to think about and act on such things is _BEFORE_ they are written in stone, not after.
In case you haven't heard, the SSSCA is before the Senate Commerce Committee, with a hearing earlier today
(http://slashdot.org/articles/02/03/01/1423248.shtml?tid=103 for the story and several links, including a draft of the bill). The SSSCA, if passed, would basically require that all interactive digital devices, including your PC, have copy protection built in. This protection would not allow digital media from being viewed, copied, transferred, or downloaded if the device is not authorized to do so. The bill also makes it a crime to circumvent the protection, including manufacturing or trafficking in anything that does not include the protection or that would circumvent it.Even if there is no SSSCA, the entertainment industry as well as the IT industry both agree: we must have copy protection of some kind. While I do not disagree that many movies, songs, and other media are distributed illegally without their owners consent, and that copyright owners need some sort of protection, this is not the way to fight the problem, and doing so can, and probably will, have drastic and far reaching consequences for not only the IT industry, but the entertainment industry and the consumer as well.
Many of us have become increasingly involved with, and dependent upon, Free Software (as in GNU GPL or similar), especially the Linux operating system. This type of software is distributed with the source code, allowing anyone to modify it as they choose and need. Linux has become popular to the point that many companies, especially those that provide some kind of service on or for the Internet, rely upon it heavily. Because of the free nature of Linux, and other Free Software, it is extremely difficult to place actual numbers on how many systems are out there employing such software. Some of you, like me, can approximate the number of such systems in your own company or realm of knowledge. So how does this relate to the SSSCA?
As any programmer worth his/her salt will attest, given the resources, anything that can be programmed into a computer can be programmed out, or worked around. In the case of copy protection such as the SSSCA would require, the resources needed for circumventing it is simply the source code for the operating system of the computer, and/or other source code for applications used on the computer (such as one of the many free video/audio players available). Now given the wording of the SSSCA, along with the DMCA and other supporting laws, it stands to reason that such Free Software would suddenly become a target for legislation. Such legislation logically may require such software to be judged illegal. Such a decision may have serious consequences to the IT industry as well as the entertainment industry and the consumer as well. Little may the consumer or entertainment industry know, but much of the technology they rely upon today is provided at low cost by Free Software. Take that software away, and suddenly doing business costs a lot more, and eventually the consumer just will not be willing to pay for it.
Now aside from the consequences to Free Software, what about the consequences to those who do not use such software. Imagine that home movie you shot last weekend on vacation. Now you wish to send that home movie to a relative, friend, whoever, over the Internet, or place it on your web site for all to download. Well, with many of the protection technologies suggested, this would not be possible, or would be extremely difficult. Some of these technologies require digital watermarks to be placed in the media, for one example. CD burners, digital cameras, etc. can not make these watermarks. The copy protection works by checking for such a watermark, and if it does not exist, the system either will not allow the media to be played, or will not allow it to be transmitted over the Internet as the case may be. So much for sending your cousin your latest home movie, or allowing your whole family to see it from your web site. An additional problem is all current media, including CDs and DVDs, you may currently legally own would not work on proposed new CD and DVD players with copy protection hardware. You would not be able to copy CDs, tapes, or anything else that you legally own in order to exercise your right to fair use, so as to listen to that CD on the cassette deck in your car.
I could go on, but I think this is long enough and has given some food for thought. Besides, I have work to do. Election time is near, so think about what that person you are voting for represents. Think about actually writing a letter to a congressman or other legislator, to a magazine (I actually had one published once, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility), newpaper, etc. Many people have the attitude that they can do nothing and make no difference. Well, I say to them they are right, because there are so many people with that attitude, that none of them do anything and they make no difference in doing so. The once that make the difference, are the ones taking a stance, and the ones taking the stance are the ones that are causing these rediculous laws to be passed. Guess who those people are?...
Welcome to The United Corporations of America.
PGA
Signature · 9 lines
Paul G. Allen Owner, Sr. Engineer, Security Specialist Random Logic/Dream Park www.randomlogic.com - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [email protected] More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Quoted 8 lines · Shawn Starr
Trouble or not. We will defeat this garbage. I will not allow any or my (Canada) country to tell me how to control my own systems let alone my own hardware!
Let them pass it, they won't be able to enforce it. I won't let my Linux kernel become 'tainted' by closed binary drivers and I will really actively get involved in defeating such measures in Linux kernel modules.
You already use much BIOS with linux today, and tomorrow ACPI will be mandatory to use your box. Both are untrusted binary "drivers".
Xav
Linux doesnt use the BIOS if you tell it not to, if it can avoid using it. It will :)
Quoted 21 lines · Xavier Bestel
Quoted 8 lines · Shawn Starr
Trouble or not. We will defeat this garbage. I will not allow any or my (Canada) country to tell me how to control my own systems let alone my own hardware!
Let them pass it, they won't be able to enforce it. I won't let my Linux kernel become 'tainted' by closed binary drivers and I will really actively get involved in defeating such measures in Linux kernel modules.
You already use much BIOS with linux today, and tomorrow ACPI will be mandatory to use your box. Both are untrusted binary "drivers".
Xav
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [email protected]
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Quoted 2 lines
Linux doesnt use the BIOS if you tell it not to, if it can avoid using it. It will :)
It has no control over the BIOS and SMM code. Who knows what is going on behind the scenes in the BIOS, be it for intentional or more dubious purposes.
Quoted 2 lines · Shawn Starr
Linux doesnt use the BIOS if you tell it not to, if it can avoid using it. It will :)
The problem is that if you don't follow the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance booting procedure, you won't see much mass-compatible content on the Internet any longer.
The solution is simple: go and create your own content, and share it with your friends. But you won't get Hollywood movies this way.
Signature · 3 lines
Florian Weimer [email protected] University of Stuttgart http://CERT.Uni-Stuttgart.DE/people/fw/ RUS-CERT +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898
Quoted 6 lines · Alan Cox
Quoted 2 lines
Linux doesnt use the BIOS if you tell it not to, if it can avoid using it. It will :)
It has no control over the BIOS and SMM code. Who knows what is going on behind the scenes in the BIOS, be it for intentional or more dubious purposes.
All too true. However, given the quality of BIOS code we have seen over the years, the thought of your average BIOS programmer implementing cryptographic techniques does provide some amusement ;-)
Any chance of any manafacturers open-sourcing their BIOS?
Regards,
Neale.
Quoted 6 lines · Florian Weimer
Quoted 2 lines · Shawn Starr
Linux doesnt use the BIOS if you tell it not to, if it can avoid using it. It will :)
Quoted 7 lines
The problem is that if you don't follow the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance booting procedure, you won't see much mass-compatible content on the Internet any longer.
The solution is simple: go and create your own content, and share it with your friends. But you won't get Hollywood movies this way.
Not watching Hollywood movies sure won't end my life. I can do without them, and I'm sure eventually many other people will realize they can too. I already know many that stopped going to movies when the price hit $6.00 (it's $8.50 here now), and several that stopped buying and renting them as well.
There are, after all, many more far more useful things in life. Hell, I have 3 boxes of books I can read (or am I going to have to pay some publisher somewhere every time I read one?! :) But, now this _IS_ OT. :)
PGA
Signature · 4 lines
Paul G. Allen Owner, Sr. Engineer, Security Specialist Random Logic/Dream Park www.randomlogic.com
Neale Banks wrote:
[snip]
Quoted 4 lines
All too true. However, given the quality of BIOS code we have seen over the years, the thought of your average BIOS programmer implementing cryptographic techniques does provide some amusement ;-)
PnP crypto? I'd love to see it. :)
That could actually be used somehow as some sort of pseudo-random generator, given the legendary oh-so-predictable behaviour of most BIOSes, even in normal circumstances... :D
Quoted 1 line
Any chance of any manafacturers open-sourcing their BIOS?
Uhmm... Odds: 1 in <buffer overflow>
Considering that they seem to see BIOSes as the easiest way to hide hardware design mistakes, they probably wont.
OTOH, why not sticking Linux straight into BIOS flash chips? Have a look here (sorry if you already knew):
http://www.linuxbios.org/
http://freebios.sourceforge.net/
Or just implement an OpenFirmware BIOS (that's cool! :)?
http://www.freiburg.linux.de/openbios/
Quoted 1 line
Regards, Neale.
All hope is not lost! ;)
Have fun.
/Dantes
Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 3 lines
It has no control over the BIOS and SMM code. Who knows what is going on behind the scenes in the BIOS, be it for intentional or more dubious purposes.
All too true. However, given the quality of BIOS code we have seen over the years, the thought of your average BIOS programmer implementing cryptographic techniques does provide some amusement ;-)
I trust several government agencies to be able to supply very high quality SMM bios code through a person planted in one of the bios writing houses.
Trusted computing people take this kind of stuff very seriously - and for good reason.
Alan
Quoted 15 lines · Paul G. Allen
Quoted 6 lines · Florian Weimer
Quoted 2 lines · Shawn Starr
Linux doesnt use the BIOS if you tell it not to, if it can avoid using it. It will :)
Quoted 7 lines
The problem is that if you don't follow the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance booting procedure, you won't see much mass-compatible content on the Internet any longer.
The solution is simple: go and create your own content, and share it with your friends. But you won't get Hollywood movies this way.
Quoted 5 lines
Not watching Hollywood movies sure won't end my life. I can do without them, and I'm sure eventually many other people will realize they can too. I already know many that stopped going to movies when the price hit $6.00 (it's $8.50 here now), and several that stopped buying and renting them as well.
Sure, but then if Linux cannot (for either legal men-with-guns reasons or technical reasons) utilize this content, you lose at the desktop.
And if Linux cannot serve this traffic, you lose at the server.
And then you lose the critical support many of the people working on it who need to do this stuff to make money.
If this becomes law, Linux in some fashion will support it. IBM and the like are (or will be) making too much money off it not to.
And if the government tells you how or what to do with the contents of your computer, you will because if the financial interests are strong enough, the laws will get passed, the constitutions will get modified, and the courts will accept it.
And then you have two choices.
Do what they tell you, or go to jail. (Well, there is a third choice, but it would best not be discussed here).
Signature · 1 line
Share and Enjoy.
Quoted 2 lines · Petro
Do what they tell you, or go to jail. (Well, there is a third choice, but it would best not be discussed here).
And for the safety of those in the USA and around the world, particularly on this list... it is best not to even think about it... until it is the only option.
Quoted 6 lines · Trever L. Adams
Quoted 2 lines · Petro
Do what they tell you, or go to jail. (Well, there is a third choice, but it would best not be discussed here).
And for the safety of those in the USA and around the world, particularly on this list... it is best not to even think about it...
Wasn't the second amendment created for this purpose ?
Rik
Signature · 4 lines
"Linux holds advantages over the single-vendor commercial OS"
-- Microsoft's "Competing with Linux" document
http://www.surriel.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/Quoted 10 lines · Rik van Riel
Quoted 6 lines · Trever L. Adams
Quoted 2 lines · Petro
Do what they tell you, or go to jail. (Well, there is a third choice, but it would best not be discussed here).
And for the safety of those in the USA and around the world, particularly on this list... it is best not to even think about it...
Wasn't the second amendment created for this purpose ?
You mean some junk in the Constitution that Bush never read?
Somebody who targets civilian airliners to "protect certain assets", thereby denying innocents the "due process" guaranteed by the Constitution, certainly in unconcerned with mere legality. This is not only illegal and immoral, it's even insane. The current President of the United States has committed treason against the Constitution and People of the United States of America and the average American, having sold his birthright for the promise of a job, remains sleeping in comfort.
Next they will come for your neighbor.
Cheers,
Dick Johnson
Penguin : Linux version 2.4.18 on an i686 machine (799.53 BogoMips).
Bill Gates? Who?
Quoted 11 lines · Rik van Riel
Quoted 6 lines · Trever L. Adams
Quoted 2 lines · Petro
Do what they tell you, or go to jail. (Well, there is a third choice, but it would best not be discussed here).
And for the safety of those in the USA and around the world, particularly on this list... it is best not to even think about it...
Wasn't the second amendment created for this purpose ?
Exactly. Last I checked, I can still say and think what I want, but in some cases it's the way you say it that matters. Your actions also have bearing on your speach - just saying you're going to revolt is different than saying it and then actually trying it.
I DO NOT have to do what they tell me, as the Constitution specifically limits what they can tell me to do. Sure, they can try, they can even break the law (as the SSSCA and DMCA do) and tell me to do it anyway, and throw me in jail for not doing it.
The problem - and here I am repeating myself again - is that too many people _allow_ themselves to be told what to do when what they are being told is blatantly against the law. It comes down to the Fear Factor once again, and THAT, I think, is the major driving force behind government (or other) control.
The first reason the SSSCA will pass (if it does), and the reason the DMCA did pass, is due to the fact that most people outside of the technical "geek" community not only didn't (or don't) understand it, but that they have never even heard of it. The second reason is because those who do know and understand, kept (or keep) their mouths shut and don't inform those who don't.
The third, at least in this country, is the piss poor voter participation. Yesterday within 5 min. - the time it took me to go to the polls, vote, and come home - I met no less than 5 people who freely admitted to not voting and appearing to be proud of it. But that's another issue altogether, and borders on OT.
PGA
Signature · 4 lines
Paul G. Allen Owner, Sr. Engineer, Security Specialist Random Logic/Dream Park www.randomlogic.com
Quoted 6 lines · Rik van Riel
Quoted 2 lines
And for the safety of those in the USA and around the world, particularly on this list... it is best not to even think about it...
Wasn't the second amendment created for this purpose ?
Rik
You seem to know US Bill of Rights fairly well. Yes, I believe you are right. But I also believe it is the responsibility of the citizenry to avoid exercising some "checks and balances" until all else has failed. Blood is not a good thing to have on ones hands... innocent blood especially.
More in private.
Trever
Quoted 4 lines · Rik van Riel
Quoted 2 lines
And for the safety of those in the USA and around the world, particularly on this list... it is best not to even think about it...
Wasn't the second amendment created for this purpose ?
If you aren't a US citizen, the Constitution does not grant any rights to you, I'm afraid. (Some courts might disagree, but I wouldn't bet my freedom or even my life on it.)
Signature · 3 lines
Florian Weimer [email protected] University of Stuttgart http://CERT.Uni-Stuttgart.DE/people/fw/ RUS-CERT +49-711-685-5973/fax +49-711-685-5898
Quoted 9 lines · Florian Weimer
Quoted 4 lines · Rik van Riel
Quoted 2 lines
And for the safety of those in the USA and around the world, particularly on this list... it is best not to even think about it...
Wasn't the second amendment created for this purpose ?
If you aren't a US citizen, the Constitution does not grant any rights to you, I'm afraid. (Some courts might disagree, but I wouldn't bet my freedom or even my life on it.)
Actually, if you are in the U.S. legally, the Constitution does grant rights to you. Most are given to "persons" not citizens. The Founding Fathers (tm) had different ideas about citizenship than we do today.