ati-agp suspend/resume support (try 2)

Based on the patch at
http://unixhead.org/docs/thinkpad/ati-agp/ati-agp.diff, add support for suspend/resume in the ati-agp module.

Signed-of-by Jaco Kroon <[email protected]>

--- linux-2.6.15-rc6/drivers/char/agp/ati-agp.c.orig 2005-12-25
22:21:32.000000000 +0200
+++ linux-2.6.15-rc6/drivers/char/agp/ati-agp.c 2005-12-26
06:47:26.000000000 +0200

(quoted diff) +5 -0

@@ -243,6 +243,10 @@
 	return 0;
 }
 
+static int agp_ati_resume(struct pci_dev *dev)
+{
+	return ati_configure();
+}
 
 /*
  *Since we don't need contigious memory we just try

@@ -525,6 +529,7 @@
 	.id_table	= agp_ati_pci_table,
 	.probe		= agp_ati_probe,
 	.remove		= agp_ati_remove,
+	.resume		= agp_ati_resume,
 };
 
 static int __init agp_ati_init(void)

Hi!

Quoted 4 lines

--- linux-2.6.15-rc6/drivers/char/agp/ati-agp.c.orig 2005-12-25
22:21:32.000000000 +0200
+++ linux-2.6.15-rc6/drivers/char/agp/ati-agp.c 2005-12-26
06:47:26.000000000 +0200

Your email client did some nasty word wrapping here. I guess the way to proceed is try #3, this time add my ACK and Cc: akpm...

Quoted 3 lines · Pavel Machek

Your email client did some nasty word wrapping here. I guess the way to proceed is try #3, this time add my ACK and Cc: akpm...

Right, which clients is recommended for this type of work - mozilla is just not doing it for me any more. I've heard some decent things about mutt, any other recomendations?

I've mailed off the patch now using mailx but that isn't going to be an option in the long run.

Quoted 10 lines · Pavel Machek

Hi!

Quoted 4 lines

--- linux-2.6.15-rc6/drivers/char/agp/ati-agp.c.orig 2005-12-25
22:21:32.000000000 +0200
+++ linux-2.6.15-rc6/drivers/char/agp/ati-agp.c 2005-12-26
06:47:26.000000000 +0200

Your email client did some nasty word wrapping here. I guess the way to proceed is try #3, this time add my ACK and Cc: akpm...

Right, which clients is recommended for this type of work - mozilla is just not doing it for me any more. I've heard some decent things about mutt, any other recomendations?

I've mailed off the patch now using mailx but that isn't going to be an option in the long run.

Quoted 8 lines · Jaco Kroon

Quoted 2 lines · Pavel Machek

Your email client did some nasty word wrapping here. I guess the way to proceed is try #3, this time add my ACK and Cc: akpm...

Right, which clients is recommended for this type of work - mozilla is just not doing it for me any more. I've heard some decent things about mutt, any other recomendations?

Quoted 2 lines

I've mailed off the patch now using mailx but that isn't going to be an option in the long run.

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

Quoted 9 lines · Steven Rostedt

Quoted 8 lines · Jaco Kroon

Quoted 2 lines · Pavel Machek

Your email client did some nasty word wrapping here. I guess the way to proceed is try #3, this time add my ACK and Cc: akpm...

Right, which clients is recommended for this type of work - mozilla is just not doing it for me any more. I've heard some decent things about mutt, any other recomendations?

Quoted 8 lines

Quoted 2 lines

I've mailed off the patch now using mailx but that isn't going to be an option in the long run.

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

Quoted 3 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

On 11:54:00 am 26 Dec 2005 Lee Revell <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted 9 lines

Quoted 3 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Quoted 4 lines

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Maybe this is a stupid question but in terms of inline patches what exactly would be ideal behavior from a mail client for LKML patch submitters? What line lengths are expected to be maintained, preferred encodings, tabs vs. spaces, etc? I have noticed that some patch submitters append an EOF after the patch, while others do not. Would the ability to pull the patch from the message body (assuming there was an agreed upon patch termination string) as a separate file/download be useful? Though my client is web based it is quite speedy and can handle large folders as well as many desktop clients IMHO. I would gladly implement specific features to make patch submission for LKML compliant.

Quoted 13 lines · Jason Munro

On 11:54:00 am 26 Dec 2005 Lee Revell <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted 9 lines

Quoted 3 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 10 lines

Maybe this is a stupid question but in terms of inline patches what exactly would be ideal behavior from a mail client for LKML patch submitters? What line lengths are expected to be maintained, preferred encodings, tabs vs. spaces, etc? I have noticed that some patch submitters append an EOF after the patch, while others do not. Would the ability to pull the patch from the message body (assuming there was an agreed upon patch termination string) as a separate file/download be useful? Though my client is web based it is quite speedy and can handle large folders as well as many desktop clients IMHO. I would gladly implement specific features to make patch submission for LKML compliant.

The specifics do not matter. It does not even have to do what we want by default when you paste or insert text. There just has to be SOME way (well, some reasonable way - a global config option is not reasonable) to insert a text file and paste from the clipboard as-is, no tab->space conversion, no line wrapping, nothing.

Would the ability to pull the patch from
the message body (assuming there was an agreed upon patch termination string) as a separate file/download be useful?

And mozilla only does the line-wrapping (with no way that I can find to switch it off). It doesn't do tab->space conversion, that usually (in my experience) results from c&p'ing from an [axe]term which outputs spaces instead of tabs to begin with (well, it does represent a character matrix so I don't really see another way).

I've looked at a few clients and it seems I'm stuck with mozilla for at least a while. Whilst probably the buggiest client there is it does look like it's the best suited for what I want. I might switch to FireFox (which iirc does have an "insert file" feature - which might also solve this problem).

For the moment though I'm quickly hacking together a bash script that wraps the sendmail binary that can be used specifically for submitting patches

I am amused at how many people are not scared of kernel hacking but will go to great lengths to avoid looking at the Mozilla code :-)

Quoted 5 lines · Jaco Kroon

And mozilla only does the line-wrapping (with no way that I can find to switch it off). It doesn't do tab->space conversion, that usually (in my experience) results from c&p'ing from an [axe]term which outputs spaces instead of tabs to begin with (well, it does represent a character matrix so I don't really see another way).

Yup, but diff foo bar | xclip is just as easy (easier) and always does the right thing. Unfortunately xclip isn't always available.

Quoted 16 lines · Jaco Kroon

Quoted 10 lines · Pavel Machek

Hi!

Quoted 4 lines

--- linux-2.6.15-rc6/drivers/char/agp/ati-agp.c.orig 2005-12-25
22:21:32.000000000 +0200
+++ linux-2.6.15-rc6/drivers/char/agp/ati-agp.c 2005-12-26
06:47:26.000000000 +0200

Your email client did some nasty word wrapping here. I guess the way to proceed is try #3, this time add my ACK and Cc: akpm...

Right, which clients is recommended for this type of work - mozilla is just not doing it for me any more. I've heard some decent things about mutt, any other recomendations?

Quoted 2 lines

I've mailed off the patch now using mailx but that isn't going to be an option in the long run.

Um, mozilla is open source - why doesn't someone just fix it, or at least report the bug?

Quoted 2 lines · Lee Revell

I am amused at how many people are not scared of kernel hacking but will go to great lengths to avoid looking at the Mozilla code :-)

That probly because those who looked at it once don't want to do that again ever.

Quoted 9 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 7 lines · Jason Munro

On 11:54:00 am 26 Dec 2005 Lee Revell <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted 3 lines

Quoted 3 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

I've looked at a few clients and it seems I'm stuck with mozilla for at least a while. Whilst probably the buggiest client there is it does look like it's the best suited for what I want. I might switch to FireFox (which iirc does have an "insert file" feature - which might also solve this problem).

For the moment though I'm quickly hacking together a bash script that wraps the sendmail binary that can be used specifically for submitting patches (the intent is to perform certain checks for Signed-of-by lines, correct [PATCH] subject and so forth). If anybody else is interrested I'd be more than happy to share (albeit I suspect the usefullness will be seriously limited).

Quoted 5 lines · On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:28:40 +0200 Jaco Kroon wrote:

Quoted 3 lines · Lee Revell

On Mon, 2005-12-26 at 12:09 -0600, Jason Munro wrote:

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines · On 11:54:00 am 26 Dec 2005 Lee Revell <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted 3 lines

Quoted 3 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

sylpheed also DTRT. (http://sylpheed.good-day.net)
It's a simple, clean email client.

Quoted 5 lines

I've looked at a few clients and it seems I'm stuck with mozilla for at least a while. Whilst probably the buggiest client there is it does look like it's the best suited for what I want. I might switch to FireFox (which iirc does have an "insert file" feature - which might also solve this problem).

Firefox has an email interface??

Quoted 6 lines

For the moment though I'm quickly hacking together a bash script that wraps the sendmail binary that can be used specifically for submitting patches (the intent is to perform certain checks for Signed-of-by lines, correct [PATCH] subject and so forth). If anybody else is interrested I'd be more than happy to share (albeit I suspect the usefullness will be seriously limited).

Greg KH and Paul Jackson have both written scripts for this. And there may be one in the quilt package.

Paul's (python) is at
http://www.speakeasy.org/~pj99/sgi/sendpatchset
I don't recall where Greg's is (perl).

Quoted 6 lines · On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:28:40 +0200 Jaco Kroon wrote:

For the moment though I'm quickly hacking together a bash script that wraps the sendmail binary that can be used specifically for submitting patches (the intent is to perform certain checks for Signed-of-by lines, correct [PATCH] subject and so forth). If anybody else is interrested I'd be more than happy to share (albeit I suspect the usefullness will be seriously limited).

Greg KH and Paul Jackson have both written scripts for this. And there may be one in the quilt package.

Paul's (python) is at
http://www.speakeasy.org/~pj99/sgi/sendpatchset
I don't recall where Greg's is (perl).

Quoted 16 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 13 lines · Jason Munro

On 11:54:00 am 26 Dec 2005 Lee Revell <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted 9 lines

Quoted 3 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

I would second that patch.

Quoted 18 lines · Jaco Kroon

Quoted 16 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 13 lines · Jason Munro

On 11:54:00 am 26 Dec 2005 Lee Revell <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted 9 lines

Quoted 3 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

I would second that patch.

I would NAK such a patch.

Andrew Morton described a way to do it, some method using x cut buffers, IIRC.

The best thing to do is use a custom script, though. Other mailers can be annoying as well, with regards to the References header, for example.
And pine is awful, encoding plain text as base64.

Quoted 1 line · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 6 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 8 lines

I would NAK such a patch.

Andrew Morton described a way to do it, some method using x cut buffers, IIRC.

The best thing to do is use a custom script, though. Other mailers can be annoying as well, with regards to the References header, for example.
And pine is awful, encoding plain text as base64.

For a maintainer who patch bombs LKML constantly a custom script is best but for the casual contributor their mailer should just work.

The default Gnome and KDE mail clients work OK so why don't we just try to get Thunderbird fixed or at least warn about it? Casual contributors are very likely to read SubmittingPatches.

I'm not trying to find the one true solution I'd just like to end the constant low grade noise (and higher bug fix latency!) of "Please resend, your patch is linewrapped" every few days.

Quoted 2 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 1 line · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

[snip]

Quoted 16 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 6 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Quoted 4 lines

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Quoted 6 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

This satisfies Linus's demand that all patches be part of the email body and not an attachment.

Maybe this is a stupid question but in terms of inline patches what exactly would be ideal behavior from a mail client for LKML patch submitters? What line lengths are expected to be maintained, preferred encodings, tabs vs. spaces, etc? I have noticed that some patch submitters append an EOF after the patch, while others do not.

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 6 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

Quoted 6 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

This satisfies Linus's demand that all patches be part of the email body and not an attachment.

Do not always blame the MUA, because actually, the MTAs may do anything with the mail text. That's (among other reasons) why things like MIME attachments were invented, because they (their respective uuencoded or base64encoded "text") can be wrapped but does not change the decoded form. - Something like that is in the pine doc.

Quoted 15 lines · On 4:26:17 pm 26 Dec 2005 Jan Engelhardt <[email protected]> wrote:

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 6 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

Quoted 6 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

This satisfies Linus's demand that all patches be part of the email body and not an attachment.

Quoted 5 lines

Do not always blame the MUA, because actually, the MTAs may do anything with the mail text. That's (among other reasons) why things like MIME attachments were invented, because they (their respective uuencoded or base64encoded "text") can be wrapped but does not change the decoded form. - Something like that is in the pine doc.

So which is preferable for someone handling inline patches. A properly encoded message text that when decoded with a compliant client accurately represents the original text (no whitespace mangling etc), or a message text that is accurate in it's raw state but may be altered during transit?

It's been done afaik (at least in thunderbird bugzilla). The answer was something like "just use a plug-in (external) editor." I tried that, but it (tbird) still truncates trailing whitespace iirc. They seem to think that it's not a problem. :(

Quoted 6 lines · On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:28:40 +0200 Jaco Kroon wrote:

For the moment though I'm quickly hacking together a bash script that wraps the sendmail binary that can be used specifically for submitting patches (the intent is to perform certain checks for Signed-of-by lines, correct [PATCH] subject and so forth). If anybody else is interrested I'd be more than happy to share (albeit I suspect the usefullness will be seriously limited).

Greg KH and Paul Jackson have both written scripts for this. And there may be one in the quilt package.

Paul's (python) is at
http://www.speakeasy.org/~pj99/sgi/sendpatchset
I don't recall where Greg's is (perl).

---
~Randy
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [email protected]
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Quoted 12 lines · Alistair John Strachan

Quoted 6 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 3 lines · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

[snip]

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

Quoted 16 lines

Quoted 16 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 6 lines

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Quoted 4 lines

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

Quoted 5 lines

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat" mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.

Quoted 15 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 12 lines · Alistair John Strachan

Quoted 6 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 3 lines · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

[snip]

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch - at least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.

Quoted 16 lines

Quoted 16 lines

Quoted 16 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 6 lines

Quoted 6 lines

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in 'Preformat' mode.

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 9 lines

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Quoted 4 lines

Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat" mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.

Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before pasting patches into Thunderbird.

Quoted 20 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 16 lines · Alistair John Strachan

Quoted 7 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 3 lines · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

[snip]

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 7 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal" may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch - at least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.

Quoted 18 lines

Quoted 18 lines

Quoted 17 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time. It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 3 lines

Quoted 3 lines

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in 'Preformat' mode.

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 6 lines

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Quoted 4 lines

Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat" mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.

Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before pasting patches into Thunderbird.

Quoted 90 lines · Michael Clark

Quoted 17 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 13 lines · Alistair John Strachan

Quoted 6 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 2 lines · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

[snip]

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 9 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into
my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it
handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal"
may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch - at least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.

Quoted 25 lines

Quoted 25 lines

Quoted 23 lines

Quoted 6 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time.
It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left
untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this
problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and
even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious
usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers
at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and
hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 6 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in 'Preformat' mode.

Quoted 16 lines

Quoted 9 lines

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat"
mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.

Quoted 2 lines

Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before pasting patches into Thunderbird.

In my thunderbird, the "Paste Without Formatting" mode seems to be continually grayed out (i.e. unavailable). I couldn't find anything in the preferences that altered this situation. What's the secret?

Quoted 1 line

I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect). Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.

Note pasting from gnome terminal does not work (as it doesn't retain tabs) nor does xclip work with Thunderbird for some reason. I use a selection in emacs and paste that.

Quoted 96 lines · Peter Williams

Quoted 92 lines · Michael Clark

Quoted 17 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 13 lines · Alistair John Strachan

Quoted 6 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 2 lines · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

[snip]

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 9 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into
my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it
handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal"
may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch - at least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.

Quoted 25 lines

Quoted 25 lines

Quoted 23 lines

Quoted 6 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time.
It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left
untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this
problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and
even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious
usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers
at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and
hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 6 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in 'Preformat' mode.

Quoted 11 lines

Quoted 9 lines

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Quoted 5 lines

Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat"
mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.

Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before pasting patches into Thunderbird.

Quoted 4 lines

In my thunderbird, the "Paste Without Formatting" mode seems to be continually grayed out (i.e. unavailable). I couldn't find anything in the preferences that altered this situation. What's the secret?

I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect). Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.

Note pasting from gnome terminal does not work (as it doesn't retain tabs) nor does xclip work with Thunderbird for some reason. I use a selection in emacs and paste that.

Quoted 6 lines · Michael Clark

Quoted 1 line

I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect). Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.

Quoted 4 lines

Note pasting from gnome terminal does not work (as it doesn't retain tabs) nor does xclip work with Thunderbird for some reason. I use a selection in emacs and paste that.

Hmm, another reason I like evolution. It has an insert file, so all you need to do is select "Preformat" and then select insert file, and it puts the file into where the cursor is without any modifications.

I also use pine (like right now) and the Ctrl-R reads a file in too.

Quoted 109 lines · On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:01:39 +0800 Michael Clark wrote:

Quoted 105 lines · Peter Williams

Quoted 88 lines · Michael Clark

Quoted 20 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 15 lines · Alistair John Strachan

Quoted 7 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 2 lines · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

[snip]

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 9 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into
my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it
handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal"
may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files "as-is").

This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch - at least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.

Quoted 25 lines

Quoted 25 lines

Quoted 23 lines

Quoted 6 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time.
It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left
untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this
problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and
even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious
usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers
at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and
hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 6 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in 'Preformat' mode.

Quoted 11 lines

Quoted 9 lines

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Quoted 8 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat"
mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.

Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before pasting patches into Thunderbird.

In my thunderbird, the "Paste Without Formatting" mode seems to be continually grayed out (i.e. unavailable). I couldn't find anything in the preferences that altered this situation. What's the secret?

Quoted 4 lines

I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect). Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.

so where is this 'Preformat' option? I don't see it.

Quoted 5 lines

Note pasting from gnome terminal does not work (as it doesn't retain tabs) nor does xclip work with Thunderbird for some reason. I use a selection in emacs and paste that.

still not good.

---
~Randy
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to [email protected]
More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Quoted 128 lines · Randy.Dunlap

Quoted 122 lines · On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:01:39 +0800 Michael Clark wrote:

Quoted 110 lines · Peter Williams

Quoted 101 lines · Michael Clark

Quoted 20 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 15 lines · Alistair John Strachan

Quoted 7 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 2 lines · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

[snip]

Quoted 12 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into
my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it

Quoted 8 lines

Quoted 8 lines

Quoted 8 lines

Quoted 6 lines

handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal"
may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files
"as-is").

This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the
inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch
- at
least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.

Quoted 27 lines

Quoted 27 lines

Quoted 24 lines

Quoted 6 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time.
It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left
untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this
problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and
even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious
usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers
at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and
hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 6 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in 'Preformat' mode.

Quoted 12 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Quoted 5 lines

Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat"
mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.

Quoted 3 lines

Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before
pasting patches into Thunderbird.

Quoted 4 lines

In my thunderbird, the "Paste Without Formatting" mode seems to be continually grayed out (i.e. unavailable). I couldn't find anything in the preferences that altered this situation. What's the secret?

I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect). Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.

Quoted 1 line

so where is this 'Preformat' option? I don't see it.

Nor me.

Quoted 130 lines · Peter Williams

Quoted 128 lines · Randy.Dunlap

Quoted 122 lines · On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:01:39 +0800 Michael Clark wrote:

Quoted 110 lines · Peter Williams

Quoted 101 lines · Michael Clark

Quoted 20 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 15 lines · Alistair John Strachan

Quoted 7 lines · Lee Revell

Quoted 2 lines · Alistair John Strachan

On Monday 26 December 2005 14:38, Steven Rostedt wrote:

[snip]

Quoted 12 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

Quoted 4 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into
my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it

Quoted 8 lines

Quoted 8 lines

Quoted 8 lines

Quoted 6 lines

handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal"
may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files
"as-is").

This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the
inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch
- at
least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.

Quoted 27 lines

Quoted 27 lines

Quoted 24 lines

Quoted 6 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time.
It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left
untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this
problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and
even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious
usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers
at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and
hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 6 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in 'Preformat' mode.

Quoted 12 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Quoted 5 lines

Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat"
mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.

Quoted 3 lines

Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before
pasting patches into Thunderbird.

Quoted 4 lines

In my thunderbird, the "Paste Without Formatting" mode seems to be continually grayed out (i.e. unavailable). I couldn't find anything in the preferences that altered this situation. What's the secret?

I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect). Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.

Quoted 5 lines

Quoted 1 line

so where is this 'Preformat' option? I don't see it.

Nor me.

It is a drop down box in the Compose window just below the subject field on the left (intially says "Body Text").

If you haven't got the rich text Compose enabled (not sure how you disable/enable this but it was an option in Mozilla Mail) you can hold down shift when you click 'Write'.

I'm running Debian/Sid Thunderbird 1.0.7 BTW.

Quoted 87 lines

Quoted 87 lines

Quoted 76 lines

Quoted 76 lines

Quoted 75 lines

Quoted 66 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 10 lines

I use pine and evolution. Pine is text based and great when I ssh into
my machine to work. Evolution is slow, but plays well with pine and it
handles things needed for LKML very well. (the drop down menu "Normal"
may be changed to "Preformat", which allows of inserting text files
"as-is").

This is also the way to do it with Thunderbird. It will do the right thing (and disables all formatting changes such as line wrapping to the
inserted text) if you select 'Preformat' before pasting in a patch
- at
least my Thunderbird 1.0.7 does this.

Quoted 23 lines

Quoted 23 lines

Quoted 22 lines

Quoted 6 lines

Dare I say it, KMail has also been doing the Right Thing for a long time.
It will only line wrap things that you insert by typing; pastes are left
untouched.

It seems that of all the popular mail clients only Thunderbird has this
problem. AFAICT it's impossible to make it DTRT with inline patches and
even if it is the fact that most users get it wrong points to a serious
usability/UI issue.

Would a patch to add "Don't use Thunderbird/Mozilla Mail" to SubmittingPatches be accepted? Then we can point the Mozilla developers
at it (they have shown zero interest in fixing the problem so far) and
hopefully this will light a fire under someone.

Quoted 6 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Fundamentally the issue with Thunderbird is that it line-wraps AFTER you compose an email, not during composition. I've never understood how, or why this is useful to the end user, except for composing HTML emails (which should be banned anyway).

Thunderbird will not linewrap anything that is inserted in 'Preformat' mode.

Quoted 5 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Thunderbird is Yet Another mailer that could have been a good piece of software if it hadn't attempted to be a clone of Outlook Express (defaulting to Top Posting, HTML composition, line wrapping pastes).

Quoted 10 lines

Quoted 4 lines

It's the mindset; fixing Thunderbird is probably easy, but convincing the Mozilla developers to include such "fixes" is probably much harder.

Should be trivial to fix, when the user puts the editor into "Preformat"
mode or inserts a text file you surround it with <pre> tags.

Quoted 3 lines

Fix the user behaviour you mean? Get them to select 'Preformat' before
pasting patches into Thunderbird.

In my thunderbird, the "Paste Without Formatting" mode seems to be continually grayed out (i.e. unavailable). I couldn't find anything in the preferences that altered this situation. What's the secret?

Quoted 7 lines

Quoted 4 lines

I'm selecting 'Preformat' in the email compose window and using regular X Paste (middle button) - and it works for me (I can save the resulting message to a .eml and diff it against the patch and it is perfect). Perhaps the Debian/Sid Thunderbird has some patch? Don't know.

so where is this 'Preformat' option? I don't see it.

Nor me.

Quoted 2 lines

It is a drop down box in the Compose window just below the subject field on the left (intially says "Body Text").

However, if one has disabled "Compose messages in HTML format", that drop-down list does not show up.
So does this generate an HTML email, using <preformat> or <tt> etc.? If so, still bad. I'll test it to myself.

Quoted 5 lines

If you haven't got the rich text Compose enabled (not sure how you disable/enable this but it was an option in Mozilla Mail) you can hold down shift when you click 'Write'.

I'm running Debian/Sid Thunderbird 1.0.7 BTW.

Quoted 9 lines

Quoted 8 lines

Quoted 5 lines

Quoted 1 line

so where is this 'Preformat' option? I don't see it.

Nor me.

It is a drop down box in the Compose window just below the subject field on the left (intially says "Body Text").

Quoted 4 lines

However, if one has disabled "Compose messages in HTML format", that drop-down list does not show up.
So does this generate an HTML email, using <preformat> or <tt> etc.? If so, still bad. I'll test it to myself.

Looks good. Preserves tabs and spaces. Not HTML email. Thanks.

Quoted 3 lines

Hmm, another reason I like evolution. It has an insert file, so all you need to do is select "Preformat" and then select insert file, and it puts the file into where the cursor is without any modifications.

sylpheed is always in 'preformat' mode then. :)
All I have to do is "Insert" and select the file.

Quoted 6 lines

I've looked at a few clients and it seems I'm stuck with mozilla for at least a while. Whilst probably the buggiest client there is it does look like it's the best suited for what I want. I might switch to FireFox (which iirc does have an "insert file" feature - which might also solve this problem).

Quoted 3 lines

For the moment though I'm quickly hacking together a bash script that wraps the sendmail binary that can be used specifically for submitting patches

I am amused at how many people are not scared of kernel hacking but will go to great lengths to avoid looking at the Mozilla code :-)

IMHO "Insert File" is suboptimal, it's better to make C&P work right.

Lee

Right, which clients is recommended for this type of work - mozilla is just not doing it for me any more. I've heard some decent things about mutt, any other recomendations?

Quoted 3 lines · Jaco Kroon

Right, which clients is recommended for this type of work - mozilla is just not doing it for me any more. I've heard some decent things about mutt, any other recomendations?

Mutt requires a terminal, which is not always convenient (e.g. the copy-paste is not possible short of saving to a file, panels are infested by similar icons). It is the ultimate text-mode client though.