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kbuild 2.5 is ready for inclusion in the 2.5 kernel - take 3

DISCUSSION [email protected] 4 participants 4 messages May 17, 2002 – May 18, 2002

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Constructive comments would be appropriate if I wanted to help construct a new kbuild. The truth is that I'm quite happy with the current kbuild and don't want it replaced with *anything* at all. (That's the same reason I'm glad no one's been talking about CML2 lately.) The new one wouldn't bother me if the user interface were *exactly* identical to the old one; i.e., if I could keep typing exactly the same commands to build a kernel and get exactly the same results and not be able to tell that anything had changed in the build process.

Personally, I wish that the only changes anybody made were to the kernel itself (new drivers added, existing performance improved, etc.) and that all the supporting tools and utilities just could be left alone. I know that's not going to happen, but anything that slows down changes in those extraneous things is fine with me. I'd be perfectly happy if *years* from now I was compiling Linux 45.10.12 with the same kbuild, CML, gcc and everything else that I'm using right now.

Adam Kropelin <[email protected]> on 05/17/2002 12:37:18 PM

To: [email protected]
cc: (bcc: Wayne Brown/Corporate/Altec)

Subject: Re: kbuild 2.5 is ready for inclusion in the 2.5 kernel - take 3

Quoted 3 lines · On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 09:21:12AM -0500, [email protected] wrote:

OTOH, those of us who are not looking forward to kbuild 2.5 are grateful for

any

Quoted 1 line

delays we can get.

...and what would your beefs (beeves?) with kbuild-2.5 be? I searched the archives
for the last 12 months and I don't see anythinng from you relevant to kbuild-2.5.
Keith has been addressing concerns quite regularly; I should think if you have constructive comments, he'd surely listen.

You *do* have constructive comments, right?

--Adam
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#1 lore raw
Quoted 7 lines · On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 02:51:57PM -0500, [email protected] wrote:

Personally, I wish that the only changes anybody made were to the kernel itself (new drivers added, existing performance improved, etc.) and that all the supporting tools and utilities just could be left alone. I know that's not going to happen, but anything that slows down changes in those extraneous things is fine with me. I'd be perfectly happy if *years* from now I was compiling Linux 45.10.12 with the same kbuild, CML, gcc and everything else that I'm using right now.

Compare and contrast..

-rw-r--r--    1 davej    users     31426560 Jan  9  2001 linux-2.0.39.tar
-rw-r--r--    1 davej    users     85442560 Nov  6  2001 linux-2.2.20.tar
-rw-r--r--    1 davej    users    131727360 Feb 25 20:15 linux-2.4.18.tar
-rw-r--r--    1 davej    users    152524800 May 10 00:11 linux-2.5.15.tar

Spot the pattern? Exponential growth. not only that, but for the most part, the build system is the same across all of these. If we continue growing at the current rate without doing something about the build process, we're all going to be needing 8-way Opterons with several GB of memory to get any work done.

If kbuild2.5 is faster, and produces the same end result (or better still, more accurate builds), there's no valid reason to ignore it that I can see.

Dave.

Signature · 2 lines
| Dave Jones.        http://www.codemonkey.org.uk
| SuSE Labs
#2 lore raw
Quoted 5 lines · On Fri, 17 May 2002 22:09:22 +0200 Dave Jones <[email protected]> escribió:

Spot the pattern? Exponential growth. not only that, but for the most part, the build system is the same across all of these. If we continue growing at the current rate without doing something about the build process, we're all going to be needing 8-way Opterons with several GB of memory to get any work done.

Well. If a miracle doesn't happen, i'll have to start thinking how to buy a 8-way Opteron....

Quoted 14 lines

If kbuild2.5 is faster, and produces the same end result (or better still, more accurate builds), there's no valid reason to ignore it that I can see.

Dave.

Signature · 7 lines
| Dave Jones.        http://www.codemonkey.org.uk
| SuSE Labs
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#3 lore raw
In reply to [email protected]

Replying to [email protected]:

Quoted 7 lines

Personally, I wish that the only changes anybody made were to the kernel itself (new drivers added, existing performance improved, etc.) and that all the supporting tools and utilities just could be left alone. I know that's not going to happen, but anything that slows down changes in those extraneous things is fine with me. I'd be perfectly happy if *years* from now I was compiling Linux 45.10.12 with the same kbuild, CML, gcc and everything else that I'm using right now.

It seems like you stuck with existing toys forever, which can somewhat indicate that your learning factor is extremely low

History knows many applications of such behavior. In short, it stops improvements and breaks progress. And in a few words more, you can now compile linux 2.2.(something) with egcs (something), and you will be able to live in underground cave with stoneage tools *years* from now too.

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Paul P 'Stingray' Komkoff 'Greatest' Jr // (icq)23200764 // (irc)Spacebar
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