kbuild 2.5 is ready for inclusion in the 2.5 kernel - take 3
Why? Because I didn't mention who said it? OK, it was Giacomo Catenazzi. You can read the original article yourself at
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=100748835520343&w=2 if you wish. In case you don't here's the relevant part. I had asked what the differences were between the old and new versions, and Giacomo replied with this:
Quoted 6 lines
The new kbuild-2.5 (also the new
Makefile)
will no more work with your command:
make dep: is no more needed
make bzlilo modulesmodules_install: it would be a simble make install: (and you configure with CML1/CML2 what install means).
Satisfied now? Or did you mean I should have installed kbuild2.5 and found out for myself? If I had any interest in using it that would be reasonable. But all I wanted was to find out how bad things are going to be after I eventually get stuck with it. So I asked for information from someone who already knew about it. Do you ever take anyone else's word for anything, or do you always have to try everything out for yourself?
This is my last post on this subject. There doesn't seem to be anyone here who understands the concept of being satisfied with a tool and seeing no need to improve it. If I'm not satisfied with something, I'll expend large amounts of time, effort and money to achieve even trivial improvements. But if I *am* satisfied with something, then I don't want to spend even a trivial amount of effort trying to achieve "improvements" that I don't need.
I never expected everyone to abandon their own needs to satisfy mine. It would be nice if they tried to accomodate my needs while satisfying their own, but I didn't expect that either. What I expect is that kbuild 2.5 (and eventually CML2) will show up in the kernel sooner or later, and I'll just have to live with it. All my original message on this subject was intended to do was to point out that not everyone was happy with the situation. The rest of you have reacted as if you're afraid Linus might listen to me and do it my way. Well, relax, I doubt he cares any more about what I want than the rest of you do. At least he didn't feel the need to jump down my throat about it.
I don't need the new kbuild. I don't want the new kbuild. But I'm going to be stuck with it, and there's nothing I can do to stop it. So for those of you who DO want it, why is it such a burden to hear that not everyone thinks the way you do?
"Mike Galbraith" <[email protected]> on 05/18/2002 05:25:11 AM
To:
cc: (bcc: Wayne Brown/Corporate/Altec)
Subject: Re: kbuild 2.5 is ready for inclusion in the 2.5 kernel - take 3
Quoted 3 lines
Someone said here on the list a few months ago that "make bzlilo" was replaced by "make install" and that it was necessary to configure the "install" option's behavior.
Someone said? Your opinion on this subject just lost all of it's value.
-Mike
Quoted 4 lines
Satisfied now? Or did you mean I should have installed kbuild2.5 and found out for myself? If I had any interest in using it that would be reasonable. But all I wanted was to find out how bad things are going to be after I eventually get stuck with it.
'get stuck' is really some good wording here I have to say.
Quoted 3 lines
This is my last post on this subject. There doesn't seem to be anyone here who understands the concept of being satisfied with a tool and seeing no need to improve it.
The point of most of the ones who angrily replied to your original post was, I believe, that you're obviously not in a position to make remarks about the quality of the new build system.
Sorry, but the opinion of someone who complains about having to switch to "make install" instead of "make oldconfig dep clean bzImage modules" (the new command even being much simpler for chrissakes) and admits that that's the only problem they can see, isn't of much value here.
Quoted 4 lines
If I'm not satisfied with something, I'll expend large amounts of time, effort and money to achieve even trivial improvements. But if I *am* satisfied with something, then I don't want to spend even a trivial amount of effort trying to achieve "improvements" that I don't need.
Just a side note:
Why exactly are you upgrading your kernel every time a new release is out, when you don't have a need to do so? I honestly doubt you're waiting for a particular fix.
Quoted 4 lines
I don't need the new kbuild. I don't want the new kbuild. But I'm going to be stuck with it, and there's nothing I can do to stop it. So for those of you who DO want it, why is it such a burden to hear that not everyone thinks the way you do?
Man, no offense meant here, but has it ever occurred to you that the clock won't ever stop and one has to keep learning new things every day? From what you have written it seems you can be in serious trouble each time your favorite grocery store closes down and you have to go round one more corner to get your bread and butter.
Tomas
Hello Wayne :)
Quoted 4 lines
I don't need the new kbuild. I don't want the new kbuild. But I'm going to be stuck with it, and there's nothing I can do to stop it. So for those of you who DO want it, why is it such a burden to hear that not everyone thinks the way you do?
Independently of my opinion about the subject, you have send a
polite and very sensible answer to all the attacks you have received (some of them very out of common sense, I must say...).
Congratulations for your message. I was thinking that people are
more concerned of defending decisions that to really make improvementes... Just look at the messages last week: many people took a big effort to attack you verbally, but my patch to a nasty (but maybe harmless) but have totally gone ignored...
Keep on like that, Wayne ;)
Raúl