The latest Microsoft FUD. This time from BillG, himself.

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5092935,00.html

Has the IP_ALIAS functionality been replaced by something else in the 2.4.x kernels?

Documentation/networking/alias.txt seems to imply that it still does, but the string IP_ALIAS does not exist anywhere else in the entire source tree. (Unless you count the default configs for non-i86 architectures.

There is a "virtual server" option in the kernel that ships with Redhat, but I assume that this is a patch for something Redhat specific. (It is not an option in 2.4.5, unless I am missing something.)

How is binding multiple IPs to a single ethernet card *supposed* to be handled under 2.4.x? If the IP_ALIAS option is no longer valid, then the alias.txt doc should be changed to reflect the new option.

Thanks!

[email protected] | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
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"All power is derived from the barrel of a gnu." - Mao Tse Stallman

Yes, he sure knows how to bring Linux to the attention of people ;)

Rik
--
Executive summary of a recent Microsoft press release:
"we are concerned about the GNU General Public License (GPL)"

		http://www.surriel.com/

http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/

I found the problem...

IP_ALIAS is no longer needed in the config. I screwed up the init script configs for it so it did not work as expected.

The documentation does not reflect that the alias behaviour is on by default.

I will submit a patch for the docs that reflects this so others will not get confused by that.

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Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.
"All power is derived from the barrel of a gnu." - Mao Tse Stallman

Of course the URL that goes with that is :
http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/interix/features.asp

Yes., Microsoft ship GNU C (quite legally) as part of their offerings...

Alan

As well as:

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2000/Apr00/WinUNIXPR.asp

where they announce distributing ActiveState's Perl 5.6 as part of their toolset. (Which they funded the development of...)

Seems they are willing to use Open Source if it suits their purposes...

[email protected] | Note to AOL users: for a quick shortcut to reply
Alan Olsen | to my mail, just hit the ctrl, alt and del keys.
"All power is derived from the barrel of a gnu." - Mao Tse Stallman

Not to mention the GPL, which I can guarantee you, before today my mom had *never* heard of.

--
Daniel

Which brings up an interesting question for us all. Let's postulate, for the sake of discussion, that we agree on the following:

a) Linux (or just about any Unix) is a better low level OS than NT
b) Microsoft's application infrastructure is better (the COM layer, the stuff that lets apps talk to each, the desktop, etc).

I know we can argue that KDE/GNOME/whatever is going to get there or is there or is better, etc., but for the time being lets just pretend that the Microsoft stuff is better.

What would be wrong with Microsoft/Linux? It would be:

a) the Linux kernel
b) the Microsoft API ported to X
c) Microsoft apps
d) Linux apps

Since Microsoft is all about making money, it doesn't matter if they charge for the dll's or the OS, either one is fine, you can't run Word without them. If you don't need the Microsoft apps, you could strip them off and strip off the dlls and ship all the rest of it without giving Microsoft a dime. If you do need the apps or you want the app infrastructure, you have to give Microsoft exactly what you have to give them today - money - but you can run Word side by side with Ghostview or whatever. Microsoft could charge exactly the same amount for the dll's as they charge for the OS, none of the end users can tell the difference anyway.

I'm unimpressed with what Microsoft calls an operating system and I'm equally unimpressed with what Unix calls an application layer. For the last 10 years, Unix has gotten the OS right and the apps wrong and Microsoft has gotten the apps right and the OS wrong. Seems like there is potential for a win-win.

You can scream all you want that "it isn't free software" but the fact of the matter is that you all scream that and then go do your slides for your Linux talks in PowerPoint.

---
Larry McVoy            	 lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitmover.com/lm 

Providing they follow the standards, the GPL and work with the community I certainly have no problems with it. Its not really any different to using Wine.

It is clearly possible for a company to reform over time. IBM were the microsoft of a past age, and they seem to have somewhat improved since.

Alan

I've been hoping for this ever since the rumors of "Microsoft Linux" started popping up. The thing is that it'll probably never happen because Microsoft wouldn't be able to stand having any portion of the system out of their control.

We have VMWare, I doubt you'll ever do any better than that...

Or AppleWorks (Mac), in my case. Or, if I wanted to be flashy, I'd make the slides up in CorelXARA (which originated on the Acorn and would probably run under WINE today) and move them to GraphicConvertor (Mac) for display. I daresay it's possible to do all that under Linux, but I haven't found such readily-available solutions staring me in the face yet.

Incidentally, you don't need a flashy presentation to make an impact. I won a prize this month largely based on a presentation I did - the content was king, the slides were white-on-black text, and I stammered my way through the actual presentation (I'm not good at public speaking). The close runner-up had done a big flashy PowerPoint presentation, was better at public speaking, but hadn't researched his material quite so thoroughly.

I use Linux for programming and servers. I still use my Macs for regular day-to-day workstation duty. That's the status quo, and it will only change slowly and with much effort.

--------------------------------------------------------------
from:     Jonathan "Chromatix" Morton
mail:     [email protected]  (not for attachments)
website:  http://www.chromatix.uklinux.net/vnc/
geekcode: GCS$/E dpu(!) s:- a20 C+++ UL++ P L+++ E W+ N- o? K? w--- O-- M++$
          V? PS PE- Y+ PGP++ t- 5- X- R !tv b++ DI+++ D G e+ h+ r++ y+(*)
tagline:  The key to knowledge is not to rely on people to teach you it.

At the Linux SuperClusters 2000 Conference, MadDog and I were the the only ones with slides done on Linux. Pretty sad!

====================================================================
Khalid Aziz Linux Development Laboratory
(970)898-9214 Hewlett-Packard
[email protected] Fort Collins, CO

Actually, it wouldn't bother me at all if they did that. If they didn't violate the GPL (i.e. didn't make proprietary changes to the kernel and libc and various utilities). I guess they could make proprietary hacks to X, which I wouldn't want, otherwise I expect that normal X apps would become 2nd class citizens. If people want to pay for M$ office I'd much rather see them using Linux underneath. That way they have a decent OS and the chances of them being slowly weaned away from M$ products as free alternatives become available (or they get comfortable with the idea of free alternatives). Trying to get people to change wholesale is a lot harder.

I suspect M$ doesn't want to do this, because while they could keep flogging Office for a long time (I hear it's better than the alternatives), they would find it harder to flog all the smaller ancillary programmes, as there would be more viable alternatives. I expect M$ will hang on to the bitter end. There's also a lot of emotional attachment to their OS which is driving their policy, I bet.

				Regards,

					Richard....
Permanent: [email protected]
Current:   [email protected]

Bad example Larry, most of us do our talks with MagicPoint. I'll probably use KPresenter for the next one, it's pretty slick.

I haven't booted Window in almost 2 years, not because I'm forcing myself to stay away, but because I haven't had the need. And yes, I do word processing, make spreadsheets, charts, send emails, you name it.

--
Daniel

Hi,

Alan Olsen> I found the problem...
Alan Olsen> IP_ALIAS is no longer needed in the config. [...] Alan Olsen> The documentation does not reflect that the alias Alan Olsen> behaviour is on by default.

yes and sorry, you are absolutely right.

Alan Olsen> I will submit a patch for the docs that reflects this so Alan Olsen> others will not get confused by that.

great, this will surely help. i've appended a first try how the changes could be clarified. please take this as a hopefully helpful proposal (HHP for short ;-).

Erik

@@ -2,40 +2,43 @@
 IP-Aliasing:
 ============
 
+IP-aliases are additional IP-adresses/masks hooked up to a base 
+interface by adding a colon and a string when running ifconfig. 
+This string is usually numeric, but this is not a must.
+
+IP-Aliases are avail if CONFIG_INET (`standard' IPv4 networking) 
+is configured in the kernel.
 
-o For IP aliasing you must have IP_ALIAS support included by static
-  linking.
 
 o Alias creation.
-  Alias creation is done by 'magic' iface naming: eg. to create a
+  Alias creation is done by 'magic' interface naming: eg. to create a
   200.1.1.1 alias for eth0 ...
   
     # ifconfig eth0:0 200.1.1.1  etc,etc....
                    ~~ -> request alias #0 creation (if not yet exists) for eth0
-    and routing stuff also ...
-    # route add -host 200.1.1.1 dev eth0:0  (if same IP network as
-					    main device)
-   
-    # route add -net 200.1.1.0 dev eth0:0   (if completely new network wanted
-					    for eth0:0)
+
+    The corresponding route is also set up by this command. 
+    Please note: The route always points to the base interface.
+	
 
 o Alias deletion.
-  Also done by shutting the interface down:
+  The alias is removed by shutting the alias down:
 
     # ifconfig eth0:0 down
                  ~~~~~~~~~~ -> will delete alias
 
   		   		   
-Alias (re-)configuring
+o Alias (re-)configuring
 
-  Aliases are not real devices, but programs` should be able to configure and
+  Aliases are not real devices, but programs should be able to configure and
   refer to them as usual (ifconfig, route, etc).
 
-Relationship with main device
------------------------------
 
-  - the main device is an alias itself like additional aliases and can
-    be shut down without deleting other aliases.
+o Relationship with main device
+
+  If the base device is shut down the added aliases will be deleted 
+  too.
+
 
 Contact
 -------

I think this is an unfair generalization.

I'm not even all that clear about what PowerPoint is (I've never seen it, ever). I'm guessing that it lets you display slides in sequence, but that's just from what I've seen of MagicPoint, which someone said at a user meet was a clone of PowerPoint.

(And yes, the talk given that day was in fact done with MagicPoint)

Michael Bacarella <[email protected]>
Technical Staff / System Development,
New York Connect.Net, Ltd.

Ooh, do I get to say "I told you so"? (LinuxToday buried my submission way back under a blurb about caldera, but still...)

http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-10-002-20-PS

Rob

Nothing, but...

... I would bet, they will try to give you a binary-only kernel module that must be loaded or else the M$ Word .NET for Linux will not run. Because they can not license check or something...

3:1 that M$ thinks along the same ways. The (now probably called off) split-up of M$ into an OS and an applications company would've accelerated this move very much.

It's BTW, what I tell people around me since four years on a more or less regular base... :-) (check older mails, you'll see that I got lots of heat for thinking so).

I, personally, would love to see Office, Outlook and Quicken for Linux. No, not clones. The real thing. Those are about the only reasons I have to keep a blown up typewriter (aka NT Server) as a pet. And getting these applications as competition, it would boost the development and quality (!) of the free alternatives as well. I'd love to see IE5.5 for Linux, too.

Devils' advocate position: If Linux would not be under GPL but under BSD license, M$ may have already done so. But consider them porting one of their monster applications and release it just to find out that they've linked to GNU readline somewhere because of an QM oversight.

I'd guess, to them, the risk of having their core code base (their source of revenue) "infected by the GNU virus" is just too high.

Hmmm. After all, they're already using FreeBSD. Maybe they will release "Windows for FreeBSD" with Office. Now that would be an interesting impact on Linux (I would be over there in seconds =:-) )

Regards
Henning

Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     [email protected]

Am Schwabachgrund 22  Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0   [email protected]
D-91054 Buckenhof     Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20   

The only sad thing here is the state that Office applications for Linux are in.

Before the last talk I did, I was wrestling for a whole sunny and really nice saturday, where I could've done many better things that sitting in front of a computer, with KPresenter and StarOffice on my notebook to get at least some slides done. At 8pm I gave up, fired the Win NT box of my wife and had about twenty slides done with PP in just under two hours (I had the text and images ready on paper and had just to create slides). They looked well on screen, on the presentation beamer and printed in colour _and_ black and white. SO and KPresenter both were able to do two of these four things.

My last LinuxExpo talk was also made with PP, but I did't have the courage to boot up a notebook with Windows in front of all the Free Software guys to do a "migrate from Windows to Unix" talk. So I took printed slides. Yeah, call me a chicken. :-)

Regards
Henning

Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     [email protected]

Am Schwabachgrund 22  Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0   [email protected]
D-91054 Buckenhof     Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20   

And the quote of "stealing the TCP stack from BSD" is still wrong.

And the web browser they have today derives from NCSA Mosaic as prominently displayed in the "About" box of every single IE version out. No TBL here.

Regards
Henning

Dipl.-Inf. (Univ.) Henning P. Schmiedehausen       -- Geschaeftsfuehrer
INTERMETA - Gesellschaft fuer Mehrwertdienste mbH     [email protected]

Am Schwabachgrund 22  Fon.: 09131 / 50654-0   [email protected]
D-91054 Buckenhof     Fax.: 09131 / 50654-20   

Do they include the source? There's a CD of source that you can buy for $20 but gcc isn't listed

I'm not sure if they are allowed to do that. See clause 1 (c):

http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdn-files/027/001/516/eula_mit.htm

Rik
--
Executive summary of a recent Microsoft press release:
"we are concerned about the GNU General Public License (GPL)"

		http://www.surriel.com/

http://www.conectiva.com/ http://distro.conectiva.com/

Never used powerpoint. If I need slides I use a (linux-based) word processor and a bigger font than for paper. Or html if I need something more fancy than text. Html works great, and is also nifty if I need to put the stuff on the web for later reference. No conversion needed, and readers don't need anything but the browser they're using.

Helge Hafting

This makes about as much sense as going to a cocktail party with nose glasses on.

--
Daniel

Slight oops on their part, but then that license is fairly new. I don't think it is aimed at the Linux world though. Microsoft are trying to prevent something else - and its all about lock in again.

If they prohibit people from linking free software with their own libraries it allows them to prevent cost effective applications becoming available on their platform so they can continue to inflate their prices. In paticular I suspect this is aimed much more at things like OpenOffice, MySql on Windows, Mozilla and friends.

Of course in two years time no doubt "in the customers interest" it will be Microsoft approved developers only , and a while after that nobody else will be allowed to make apps for their product.

Alan

Not really. In Linus's book he describes that his presentations used to be (and possibly still are?) done in powerpoint. In fact at one point he says "thank god for Microsoft". Given the context, I'm not sure if he was joking or not. Not that it matters. I share Linus's opinion that it's not an issue of hating Microsoft. It's an issue of keeping your energies focused on progress because Microsoft will be irrelevant in the very near future.

The momentum is on our side...

Chuck Wolber		| steward: "Are you the pilot?"
System Administrator	| pilot: "Yes, why?"
AltaServ Corporation	| steward, handing box to pilot: "Then this is for you."
(425)576-1202		| pilot, looking inside box: "Oh, it's a new altimeter."
ten.vresatla@wkcuhc	| 	--Chris Kennedy

One of the mantras that get hammered into Microsoft employees is "Eat your own dogfood." Which means that people working at Microsoft should attempt to use the company's products throughout the day in order to surface problems and give incentive to those folks to make things better. Obviously, the "EYODF" work doesn't kick in until there is some minimal level of functionality.

It may be that Linux/OSS office applications simply aren't useful enough yet for anyone to stomach using them throughout the day. It would be nice to see more Linux folks eating the dogfood and making those applications better, though.

For my part, I test Enlightenment, Gnome, XFree86 and Mozilla, in addition to Linux kernels.

Miles

I said as much in an article to LinuxToday. (They buried it under a page of commentary about Ransom Love, but they did post it.)

http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-10-002-20-PS

BSD forked to death in the 80's. Everybody from AT&T to Sun to IBM who saw money in it spun off their own incompatable, proprietary version.

If MS was currently facing BSD rather than LInux, they would have "embrace and extend"ed it long ago. Hide half of office in the system libraries (just like windows), come out with a closed-source version, loot the open competition for any advances but don't share yours...

The GPL was designed to block embrace and extend. It embraces and extends right back. And it's torquing microsoft off big time.

Just like AT&T did to free Unix in ~1984. How long before it's "Office for BSD incidentally distributed with a closed-source copy of BSD" mutated into "yet another incompatable proprietary operating system, just with lots of unix code."

That wouldn't solve anything. We've been through a few years with netscape as our only viable web browser on linux, how much fun was that?

Rember the ben franklin quote about exchanging liberty for safety. Buying short-term gains with long-term sacrifices is a dumb idea. Been there. Done that. Came here to recover.

Rob

Everybody took the BSD tcp stack, including VMS and OS/2. It was the first major lump of code they separated when AT&T started making legal threats around 1983.

Did I say stealing? The berkeley people gave it away for free...

You take microsoft's word for things?

Read this:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/january/new0122d.htm

Various other coverage:

http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/news/0120/22aspy.html
http://www4.zdnet.com/anchordesk/story/story_587.html

And two years later, spyglass still hadn't learned their lesson:

http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,1014310,00.html

Rob

Apple's doing it right now.

Except that Apple keeps the old code open. Probably because they'll gain nothing from it, and at best, they can appeal to the techies.

And it worked. For months, I heard nothing but how much butt MacOS X would kick and that it'd be like Linux, but have a better application layer.

Whatever.

No one says that now that it's out. As if Apple would really try to appeal to us. :)

Michael Bacarella <[email protected]>
Technical Staff / System Development,
New York Connect.Net, Ltd.

Hardly..

A company that seems to write 'you shall not work on open source projects in your spare time' into its employment contracts is not what I would call friendly or want to work for. Im sure its only a small step to 'employees shall not snowboard' 'employees shall not go skiing' - all of course argued for the same reason as being essential to the company interest

Hi !
I have a problem with reading from a serial port using select() under 2.4.5. What I am doing is basically the following:

fd_set readfds;
struct timeval timeout;
int s;

serialfd = open("/dev/ttyS0", O_RDWR );

init_serial(B9600);

timeout.tv_sec = 2; /* ! */
timeout.tv_usec = 0;
FD_ZERO(&readfds);
FD_SET(serialfd,&readfds);

s=select(serialfd+1, &readfds, NULL, NULL, &timeout);
...

But s is always equal to 0 even when I am sure there are data to read. If I use

s=select(serialfd+1, NULL, &writefds, NULL, &timeout);

(with the corresponding initialisation of writefds) it returns s=1 and I can write to the serial port. I can see that since the lights of the modem are flashing.
I noticed that behavior since I tried to send some "ATZ" with the write-function but I never got the "OK" back.

However, the same programme works under 2.2.19.

Any help, please ?

--
Thomas

This IS the company that had the "I work 90 hours all the time" club with t-shirts and everything back under Jobs in the early 80's. And far more recently, where at least one employee got in trouble for "thinking different' with a parody site involving famous serial killers.

The "Proprietary frosting" model is fine for leaf-node projects like games. But if the new layer is infrastructure other people are expected to build on top of, then what you're really saying is "I want slaves".

Rob

Probably I should have given the init_serial() as well; So here it is:
(it is basically the one from the serial-programming-howto)

int init_serial(tcflag_t baud)

{
        struct termios tio;
        tcgetattr(serialfd,&tio);
        tio.c_cflag = baud | CLOCAL;
        tio.c_iflag = IGNPAR;
        tio.c_oflag = 0;
        tio.c_lflag = 0;
        tio.c_cc[VTIME] = 0;
        tio.c_cc[VMIN] = 1;
        tcflush(serialfd, TCIFLUSH);
        tcsetattr(serialfd,TCSANOW,&tio);
        return 0;
}

Thank you for any help
--
Thomas

[email protected] (Rob Landley) wrote on 22.06.01 in <[email protected]>:

Hmm. This *is* the company that has at least one guy full-time working on merging their changes back into gcc (with the right Copyright assignments), and where the guy in question does discuss how to make gcc work nice with both Apple's application framework and the GPL clone of it.

Oh, and one intern working right now to improve gcc's errors-and-warnings code, because that's what the gcc list came up with as a task.

Sure, that's not many people in such a large company, but it's a vast difference from MS, and it's also a vast difference from the earlier Apple from the look-and-feel lawsuit age.

For a while, they also paid someone for working on Debian's packaging tool (dpkg) which they now use for Darwin; at the time, that guy was practically the dpkg lead developer.

And don't forget MkLinux.

Apple is not another Red Hat, but they're not a Black Hat either.

MfG Kai

How about adding CREAD?

Ciao, ET.

Minor note:
1) The above link is now gone...
2) The above EULA was examined very closely by various
communications manufactures. If the wording remains the same when the library gets out of BETA there may be some interesting counter EULAs.

Hi!

Take a look at themes.org. They are basicaly trying to sue anyone who makes something similar to their aqua.
Pavel

I'm [email protected]. "In my country we have almost anarchy and I don't care."
Panos Katsaloulis describing me w.r.t. patents at [email protected]