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Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

DISCUSSION Matt Madison 6 participants 10 messages Mar 22, 2011 – Mar 23, 2011

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#0 lore raw

Hi,

I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a ³reasonably current² Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I¹m stuck with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5. I¹ve got some patches that I¹ve been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these systems. Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts? Any thoughts on how far back ³reasonably current² is going to be with each Yocto release? I¹m trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently, and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I¹m not sure I¹ll be able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.

Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

Thanks,
-Matt

#1 lore raw
Quoted 2 lines · Matt Madison

Hi,

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. Both on machines in which I do not have root access.

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and it worked. (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something may have broken since then.)

Quoted 11 lines

I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a “reasonably current” Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I’m stuck with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5. I’ve got some patches that I’ve been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these systems. Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts? Any thoughts on how far back “reasonably current” is going to be with each Yocto release? I’m trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently, and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I’m not sure I’ll be able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.

Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

I think this is a fairly typical problem. In my experience it's usually easier to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.

As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches. At a minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what patches you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of the build environment. The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.

So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post it there.

--Mark

Quoted 9 lines

Thanks,
-Matt

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

#2 lore raw

Yes - the wiki is a great place for this type of information. All the specifics for a particular build system and the steps you have to take to make it work can be collected there. Then from the Quick Start we can mention where to get support information for older versions.

ScottR

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Hatle
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:48 AM
To: Matt Madison
Cc: Yocto Mailer
Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

Quoted 2 lines · Matt Madison

Hi,

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. Both on machines in which I do not have root access.

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and it worked. (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something may have broken since then.)

Quoted 11 lines

I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a "reasonably current" Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I'm stuck with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5. I've got some patches that I've been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these systems. Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts? Any thoughts on how far back "reasonably current" is going to be with each Yocto release? I'm trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently, and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I'm not sure I'll be able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.

Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

I think this is a fairly typical problem. In my experience it's usually easier to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.

As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches. At a minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what patches you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of the build environment. The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.

So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post it there.

--Mark

Quoted 9 lines

Thanks,
-Matt

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

#3 lore raw

OK, sounds good. I'll go through my notes and transcribe them to the wiki.

-Matt

Quoted 75 lines · Scott M

Yes - the wiki is a great place for this type of information. All the specifics for a particular build system and the steps you have to take to make it work can be collected there. Then from the Quick Start we can mention where to get support information for older versions.

ScottR

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Hatle
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:48 AM
To: Matt Madison
Cc: Yocto Mailer
Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

Quoted 2 lines · Matt Madison

Hi,

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. Both on machines in which I do
not have root access.

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and
it worked. (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something
may have broken since then.)

Quoted 13 lines

I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a "reasonably current" Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I'm stuck with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5. I've got some patches that I've been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these systems. Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts? Any
thoughts on how far back "reasonably current" is going to be with each Yocto release? I'm trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently,
and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I'm not sure I'll be
able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.

Quoted 1 line

Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

I think this is a fairly typical problem. In my experience it's usually easier
to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.

As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches. At a minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what patches
you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of the
build environment. The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.

So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post it
there.

--Mark

Quoted 9 lines

Thanks,
-Matt

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

#4 lore raw
In reply to Rifenbark, Scott M

I¹ve posted some notes at https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/BuildingOnRHEL4
and will update further as I find more things to work around.

-Matt

Quoted 80 lines · Scott M

Yes - the wiki is a great place for this type of information. All the specifics for a particular build system and the steps you have to take to make it work can be collected there. Then from the Quick Start we can mention where to get support information for older versions.

ScottR

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Hatle
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:48 AM
To: Matt Madison
Cc: Yocto Mailer
Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

Quoted 2 lines · Matt Madison
Quoted 2 lines

Hi,

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. Both on machines in which I do
not have root access.

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and
it worked. (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something
may have broken since then.)

Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 2 lines

I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a "reasonably current" Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I'm

stuck

Quoted 1 line

with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5. I've got

some

Quoted 1 line

patches that I've been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on

these

Quoted 11 lines
Quoted 1 line

systems. Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts?

Any

Quoted 1 line

thoughts on how far back "reasonably current" is going to be with each

Yocto

Quoted 1 line

release? I'm trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more

frequently,

Quoted 1 line

and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I'm not sure

I'll be

Quoted 3 lines

able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.

Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

I think this is a fairly typical problem. In my experience it's usually easier
to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.

As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches. At a minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what patches
you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of the
build environment. The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.

So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post it
there.

--Mark

Quoted 9 lines
Quoted 9 lines

Thanks,
-Matt

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

#5 lore raw

Matt,

Thanks for putting that information on the wiki. I will add a note to the QS that points there for information on older systems.

ScottR

From: Matt Madison [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:37 PM
To: Rifenbark, Scott M; Mark Hatle
Cc: Yocto Mailer
Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

I've posted some notes at https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/BuildingOnRHEL4 and will update further as I find more things to work around.

-Matt

On 3/22/11 10:00 AM, "Rifenbark, Scott M" <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes - the wiki is a great place for this type of information. All the specifics for a particular build system and the steps you have to take to make it work can be collected there. Then from the Quick Start we can mention where to get support information for older versions.

ScottR

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Hatle
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:48 AM
To: Matt Madison
Cc: Yocto Mailer
Subject: Re: [yocto] Older versions of Linux as build hosts?

Quoted 2 lines · Matt Madison

Hi,

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. Both on machines in which I do not have root access.

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and it worked. (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something may have broken since then.)

Quoted 11 lines

I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a "reasonably current" Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I'm stuck with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5. I've got some patches that I've been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these systems. Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts? Any thoughts on how far back "reasonably current" is going to be with each Yocto release? I'm trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently, and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I'm not sure I'll be able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.

Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

I think this is a fairly typical problem. In my experience it's usually easier to solve in a commercial space then pure open source.

As for the question about interest, we're always interested in patches. At a minimum, it would be nice to document what steps you had to do and what patches you may have had to apply in order to get "unsupported" functionality out of the build environment. The yocto wiki seems a fairly natural place for this.

So please send what you have, or start an account on the Yocto Wiki and post it there.

--Mark

Quoted 9 lines

Thanks,
-Matt

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

_______________________________________________
yocto mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.yoctoproject.org/listinfo/yocto

#6 lore raw
In reply to Mark Hatle
Quoted 9 lines · Mark Hatle
Quoted 2 lines · Matt Madison

Hi,

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. Both on machines in which I do not have root access.

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and it worked. (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something may have broken since then.)

I have noticed of late, pseudo's definition of clone conflicts with my RHEL 4's definition of clone. Aside
from that I haven't noticed any significant issues.

#7 lore raw
Quoted 7 lines · Jeremy Puhlman
Quoted 6 lines · Mark Hatle
Quoted 2 lines · Matt Madison

Hi,

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. Both on machines in which I do not have root access.

Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 3 lines

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and it worked. (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something may have broken since then.)

I have noticed of late, pseudo's definition of clone conflicts with my RHEL 4's definition of clone. Aside
from that I haven't noticed any significant issues.

semantics of clone changed between RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. :(

The newer version of pseudo (upstream, not yet in Poky) fixes this issue.

It's still in development, so I wouldn't consider it stable yet -- but the reworking of the utility directories is what was needed to identify the differences.

--Mark

#8 lore raw
Quoted 16 lines · Mark Hatle
Quoted 7 lines · Jeremy Puhlman
Quoted 6 lines · Mark Hatle
Quoted 2 lines · Matt Madison

Hi,

I have done builds with both RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. Both on machines in which I do not have root access.

Quoted 7 lines
Quoted 3 lines

For me I was able to simply provide an update python, some additional tools and it worked. (Note, I haven't tried it in the last 2 months though, so something may have broken since then.)

I have noticed of late, pseudo's definition of clone conflicts with my RHEL 4's definition of clone. Aside
from that I haven't noticed any significant issues.

Quoted 6 lines

semantics of clone changed between RHEL 4 and RHEL 5. :(

The newer version of pseudo (upstream, not yet in Poky) fixes this issue.

It's still in development, so I wouldn't consider it stable yet -- but the reworking of the utility directories is what was needed to identify the differences.

For what its worth, poky master is now moving ahead with new changes so if you do have updates for master, the tree is open for them.

Cheers,

Richard

#9 lore raw
In reply to Matt Madison
Quoted 14 lines · Matt Madison

Hi,

I know the documentation mentions that you should be running a “reasonably current” Linux as your build host, but in my enterprise environment I’m stuck with having to run fairly old versions, based on RHEL 4 and 5. I’ve got some patches that I’ve been maintaining so I can bootstrap Bernard builds on these systems. Is there any interest in supporting older systems as build hosts? Any thoughts on how far back “reasonably current” is going to be with each Yocto release? I’m trying to work with my IT group to upgrade a bit more frequently, and for developer workstations, that might be possible, but I’m not sure I’ll be able to convince them to do that for servers in our data centers.

Quoted 1 line

Is anyone else having this kind of problem?

We have other users suffering with this sort of problem which is why Richard worked to enable Poky to build an external Python tarball. This tarball should include what you need (Python + chrpath) to run Poky on RHEL: http://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/downloads/miscsupport/

I documented this for CentOS on the Yocto wiki:
https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Poky/GettingStarted/Dependencies

Regards,
Joshua

Signature · 3 lines
Joshua Lock
        Yocto Build System Monkey
        Intel Open Source Technology Centre